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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to respond he/she?

339 replies

Manchesteruser · 06/06/2026 00:00

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

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TheKeatingFive · 10/06/2026 08:54

QldGCandproud · 10/06/2026 08:50

This is a perfect example of gaslighting. There was no suggestion of charging up and offering medical advice. Just a polite query about how others would respond to being asked or expected to perform compelled speech in thier social circle.
You clearly think compelled speech is fine, and that those of us who genuinely struggle to say things that don't align with reality are rude and "don't deserve to live in a civilised society".
I think a civilised society allows people to ask polite questions and consider the impacts of the language they are asked to use.
But do go on, tell us all how to think and speak and behave. It's just another day in gender-wonderland.

And they wonder why they're losing suppprt for the cause?

Its not rocket science ...

QldGCandproud · 10/06/2026 08:50

Baileyonice · 06/06/2026 07:21

Err, its just a social gathering of acquaintances not an intervention. How would you like a virtual stranger charging upto you publicly imposing their non expert uninvited medical 'advice'?

Who's really struggling 'mentally' here isn't who you think it is.

This is a perfect example of gaslighting. There was no suggestion of charging up and offering medical advice. Just a polite query about how others would respond to being asked or expected to perform compelled speech in thier social circle.
You clearly think compelled speech is fine, and that those of us who genuinely struggle to say things that don't align with reality are rude and "don't deserve to live in a civilised society".
I think a civilised society allows people to ask polite questions and consider the impacts of the language they are asked to use.
But do go on, tell us all how to think and speak and behave. It's just another day in gender-wonderland.

TheKeatingFive · 10/06/2026 07:44

Baileyonice · 10/06/2026 07:22

Much like sexually ambiguous people attempting to use the loo of their choice?

No 'transwoman' is 'sexually ambiguous'

MagpiePi · 10/06/2026 07:44

Baileyonice · 10/06/2026 07:22

Much like sexually ambiguous people attempting to use the loo of their choice?

Can you explain a bit more as to what you mean here?

Baileyonice · 10/06/2026 07:22

ScarlettSunset · 10/06/2026 07:16

But there's no way for anyone else to tell these people apart. They are both the sex they were born as. That doesn't change however they feel about it.

Much like sexually ambiguous people attempting to use the loo of their choice?

ScarlettSunset · 10/06/2026 07:16

Baileyonice · 10/06/2026 04:22

The core difference is that cross-dressing relates to clothing choices, while transgender refers to a person's fundamental gender identity. Cross-dressers typically identify with their assigned birth gender and wear clothing associated with the opposite sex for personal enjoyment. Transgender individuals have an internal gender identity that differs from their assigned sex at birth.

But there's no way for anyone else to tell these people apart. They are both the sex they were born as. That doesn't change however they feel about it.

Baileyonice · 10/06/2026 04:45

OldCrone · 09/06/2026 09:57

Gender dysphoria is a distess condition related to being trans but not always. It is not the cause of them being trans

I didn't say anything about causes. I asked why people who are not sick are looking for a medical diagnosis and treatment if they are perfectly healthy.

And what do you mean by 'not always'? Are you saying that some people with gender dysphoria are not trans or are you saying that some people who identify as trans don't have gender dysphoria? Or both?

And I'm sure I've asked you this before (and you've declined to answer), but what do you think 'being trans' means? I'm asking here for your own personal opinion, so don't tell me to 'do my own research'.

As are some cis people but that doesn't make all cis people AG.

What do you mean by this? Are you just saying that some men with autogynephilia don't identify as trans? And I didn't say all male trans people were autogynephiles.

ROGD (social contagion) is an unproven theory.

So the sudden jump in kids identifying as trans in about 2014 was due to what? Something in the water? Climate change?

I didn't say anything about causes. I asked why people who are not sick are looking for a medical diagnosis and treatment if they are perfectly healthy.

Its just like gay people. There's nothing physically wrong with them but they can develop mental health problems as a result of not conforming to the norm or not being accepted.

And what do you mean by 'not always'? Are you saying that some people with gender dysphoria are not trans or are you saying that some people who identify as trans don't have gender dysphoria? Or both?

Not all trans people have gender dysphoria as their non alignment doesn't give them psychological distress or significant psychological distress that rises to the level of requiring medical help.

And I'm sure I've asked you this before (and you've declined to answer), but what do you think 'being trans' means? I'm asking here for your own personal opinion, so don't tell me to 'do my own research'.

A more closer psychological/behavioural/ cultural identification/association with the opposite sex they were born.

As are some cis people but that doesn't make all cis people AG.

What do you mean by this? Are you just saying that some men with autogynephilia don't identify as trans? And I didn't say all male trans people were autogynephiles.

I'm just saying AG doesn't make you trans. Research shows 80 to 90% of cis women engage in AG behaviour.

ROGD (social contagion) is an unproven theory.
So the sudden jump in kids identifying as trans in about 2014 was due to what? Something in the water? Climate change?

Like anything else increased social acceptance increases social visibility. The internet & Social media no doubt plays a role in increasing comfort levels in 'coming out'.

Baileyonice · 10/06/2026 04:22

Waitingfordoggo · 09/06/2026 09:48

What’s the difference between a cross dresser and a trans person though? I mean have you noticed how there don’t seem to be cross dressers anymore? Those who would have been called cross dressers 30 years ago are calling themselves trans these days.

The core difference is that cross-dressing relates to clothing choices, while transgender refers to a person's fundamental gender identity. Cross-dressers typically identify with their assigned birth gender and wear clothing associated with the opposite sex for personal enjoyment. Transgender individuals have an internal gender identity that differs from their assigned sex at birth.

Okiedokie123 · 09/06/2026 21:49

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 19:12

Ok sorry, to me distance yourself from someone is akin to ignoring. I don't know why you say you're happy to spend time with trans people when you clearly aren't. Which is fine. It's your choice.

Again you are telling me I’ve said things I haven’t.
First it was ignoring people.
Now it’s that “I don’t know why you say you're happy to spend time with trans people when you clearly aren't” which again isn’t really true. It would make me feel uncomfortable (because that’s a normal feeling to have in the company of eg a man in a dress) The bigger issue by far is that I wouldn’t be able to tolerate their lies, their delusion. Ideally I would want to kindly talk them out of it.
Because to encourage or endorse trans behaviour is abusive. Which I’m not into. Maybe you are?

Which is why I would distance myself, which caused you to accuse me of shunning which has now become “fine, my choice”. Yes exactly.
All of which reminds me of the typical word soup that is the trans cult.

Waitingfordoggo · 09/06/2026 20:32

I wouldn’t agree that distancing and ignoring are the same thing. The latter would involve acting as though someone doesn’t exist at all, while distancing might mean greeting the person at the beginning of the event, perhaps exchanging a few words but then making oneself quite busy with an interesting conversation elsewhere. In any social gathering with enough people, there are always attendees I’d rather spend time talking to than others. Sometimes there are people I distance myself from because I feel that spending time with them will be hard work and I just want to relax. That might be because I know we have very different political views or I know that the person has form for trauma dumping or talking about themselves incessantly… lots of reasons why I might not prioritise talking to them. And this might include a trans person if my perception is that I’m going to need to walk on eggshells around them to avoid hurting their feelings. Just doesn’t really make for a relaxing occasion. That isn’t the same as shunning or ignoring though.

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 19:12

Okiedokie123 · 09/06/2026 18:36

Where did I mention ignoring anybody?
Im happy to spend time with a trans identifying person if they don’t mind the fact that I won’t go along with the lies and pronouns hoop jumping etc.
I said I prefer to distance myself from trans identifying people because I’m rubbish at lying and I also try to avoid being rude to anybody. So it’s better for me to mingle elsewhere.
Ive got several disabilities and MH issues. I totally accept that not everyone is a great choice of friend for me or me them.

Edited

Ok sorry, to me distance yourself from someone is akin to ignoring. I don't know why you say you're happy to spend time with trans people when you clearly aren't. Which is fine. It's your choice.

Okiedokie123 · 09/06/2026 19:10

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 11:43

Ok but it's cool to shun someone due to their behaviour. There's nothing wrong with that.

But the act of being trans or anorexic or having bpd or something aren't reasons to do so. Unless the person has actually done something wrong.

Ok so I’ll put it another way that maybe will work better for you.
Let’s say I am out with 20ish male and female friends somewhere (as a woman who does not and will not accept that eg a TIM is a woman). During this social time there is a man there who says his name is Sheila. He’s wearing a dress .
I have a decision to make
A) avoid him and spend time with other people in the group (my preference as I’m rubbish at confrontations)
B) Join in with whatever conversations he is part of because yay we are all friends hanging out together!
C) call it a night and go home. Earlier than I would have liked.

My choice is A. Because I don’t want to chat to a bloke in a dress. It’s uncomfortable for me. Hopefully I can enjoy the evening without any interactions with him. I cannot choose B because I cannot “womanface” and pretend he is something he is not. He is a man. I also would rather not endure him getting cross at my refusal to comply with his lie. And I don’t want his presence to spoil my night out. I want to be there so I don’t want to choose C.

i chose to be there. He chose to be there. I am politely avoiding him thus making one person possibly feel uncomfortable. His presence is making in fact eg 60% of the people there raise eyebrows, feel uncomfortable. Why should any of us choose B or C just to oblige him? He is the issue…… not the rest of the group.
He is choosing to be there in a way that will make others feel uncomfortable. He needs to “shun himself” and go find some like minded others. Eg other men in dresses!

Having said all that…… if he goes to use the ladies loos……I’m very willing to be confrontational and say “the gents are over there!” Because my daughter, someone else’s daughter, any woman, any age is likely already using the loos.

If the trans identifying person is a girl/woman who says she’s a boy/man. I’d feel fine talking to her because she would likely be of no threat to me. But I still wouldn’t accept the lie.

TL:DR they are the ones doing the shunning (ie by refusing to accept the truth of what they are)

Okiedokie123 · 09/06/2026 18:36

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 09:43

So people should ignore them because they're 'unwell'? I mean I think it probably is some kind of Mental illness in a way, but I suffer from mental illness and I wouldn't want to be shunned or people have to leave because they looked at me. Those people who would do so I'd consider arseholes.

Where did I mention ignoring anybody?
Im happy to spend time with a trans identifying person if they don’t mind the fact that I won’t go along with the lies and pronouns hoop jumping etc.
I said I prefer to distance myself from trans identifying people because I’m rubbish at lying and I also try to avoid being rude to anybody. So it’s better for me to mingle elsewhere.
Ive got several disabilities and MH issues. I totally accept that not everyone is a great choice of friend for me or me them.

Lovelyview · 09/06/2026 17:04

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/06/2026 07:22

I suggest you notice the difference between real people and online propaganda.

Detransition is uncommon, and most of those who detrans didn't have any medical treatment at all. Many detrans due to violent transphobia, not regret.

Detrans people deserve love, support and to be heard. Their experiences are personal, not weapons to be used against trans people.

A real person.

https://www.independentwomen.com/2026/05/26/at-14-i-endured-gender-affirming-care-ill-suffer-with-that-for-the-rest-of-my-life/

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2026 13:50

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 13:17

Ok fair enough. The trans family member is a bio woman. If that makes even more difference?

But I don't agree with shunning people or refusing to speak to them just because they're trans.

It doesn't make a difference no. Because ultimately the uncle still has less at stake than a woman.

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 13:17

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2026 13:14

Which part of the toxic behaviour did you not understand?

An uncle isn't impacted in the same way as a woman are they? It's relevant.

Ok fair enough. The trans family member is a bio woman. If that makes even more difference?

But I don't agree with shunning people or refusing to speak to them just because they're trans.

RedToothBrush · 09/06/2026 13:14

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 13:08

I'm sure you'll have a grand time. Just treat them like anyone else. As women we don't constantly think about calling eachother her or she. And by and large I speak to both sexes the same.

I've got trans family and one side there's the uncle who can't say 'their' pronouns and still uses their old name when they're not there. But he doesn't do it to their face and just avoids that side of things. But still can socialise and be close and caring to them.

Which part of the toxic behaviour did you not understand?

An uncle isn't impacted in the same way as a woman are they? It's relevant.

Waitingfordoggo · 09/06/2026 13:10

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 13:02

That sounds perfectly reasonable.

I think so, but my worry would be about talking to other people at the gathering who are affirming of the trans person’s delusion. Many of the most rampant TRAs are not themselves trans. If someone says ‘Where’s Alex?’ and I say ‘Oh he’s gone to the bar’, I would fear being told off by other attendees for correctly sexing Alex. This would make me wary if I was attending a gathering with a trans person present, and would put me off attending at all if I suspected that all the other guests were happy to pretend Alex was a woman. I suppose in my example ‘gone to the bar’ is the easiest way round it 😂

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 13:08

DialSquare · 09/06/2026 12:56

Well if they can accept me using correct sex pronouns and me not going along with their delusion, I’d happily talk to them.

I'm sure you'll have a grand time. Just treat them like anyone else. As women we don't constantly think about calling eachother her or she. And by and large I speak to both sexes the same.

I've got trans family and one side there's the uncle who can't say 'their' pronouns and still uses their old name when they're not there. But he doesn't do it to their face and just avoids that side of things. But still can socialise and be close and caring to them.

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 13:02

Waitingfordoggo · 09/06/2026 12:58

I wouldn’t randomly announce to a TIM that he is male, no. Unless he is heading for the women’s loos in which case I might point out that he is going the wrong way. I also am unlikely to use the pronouns he doesn’t like to his face- because I would be using ‘you’ rather than 3rd person pronouns.

In a similar vein, of course I would not tell an anorexic to their face that they are very underweight, but if someone else at the gathering says ‘Doesn’t [anorexic person] look well?’ I won’t be able to agree with them.

That sounds perfectly reasonable.

DialSquare · 09/06/2026 12:59

DialSquare · 09/06/2026 12:56

Well if they can accept me using correct sex pronouns and me not going along with their delusion, I’d happily talk to them.

Unless they use the wrong single sex provision then I would have no interest in talking to them at all.

Waitingfordoggo · 09/06/2026 12:58

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 12:43

But you don't have to tell the trans person you believe they're the opposite sex. Same as you don't need to talk about the anorexic's weight.

You don't have to call a trans person the pronouns they choose, but to call them to their face repeatedly the opposite is rude. Same as saying to an anorexic they look like a skeleton. Why not just not talk to them about their way of being?

I wouldn’t randomly announce to a TIM that he is male, no. Unless he is heading for the women’s loos in which case I might point out that he is going the wrong way. I also am unlikely to use the pronouns he doesn’t like to his face- because I would be using ‘you’ rather than 3rd person pronouns.

In a similar vein, of course I would not tell an anorexic to their face that they are very underweight, but if someone else at the gathering says ‘Doesn’t [anorexic person] look well?’ I won’t be able to agree with them.

DialSquare · 09/06/2026 12:56

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 12:53

Well yeah, you don't need to talk to them about them being trans? You can just do normal small talk, have a laugh etc?!

Well if they can accept me using correct sex pronouns and me not going along with their delusion, I’d happily talk to them.

BillieWiper · 09/06/2026 12:53

DialSquare · 09/06/2026 12:50

What do you mean by talk to them about their way of being? Do you mean why don’t you just talk to Trans people?

Well yeah, you don't need to talk to them about them being trans? You can just do normal small talk, have a laugh etc?!