How to respond he/she?

I'd never call a man 'she'. It's disrespectful to women and the whole concept of scientific reality and the truth.

How anyone concluded that knowingly lying is either polite or respectful I'll never know. Completely ridiculous.

But pronouns are relatively easy to avoid. Just call him by his name.

But disapproving of someone pretending to be something he's not is different from disapproving of who someone is. Isn't it?

Can you see how this distinction might be relevant in this case?

Even if someone really believes he is something he isn't, politeness and general good sense might lie with the truth rather than support for something plainly false. No?

Suppose I tell you I'm super cool and astonishingly attractive, and that I know all the answers to life's most difficult questions. Will you genuflect towards me, defer to me, tell me I'm lovely, and do whatever I say? Your argument seems to suggest that it would be rude - bordering on abusive - not to do so. Hmm?

Sorry, it was sarcasm. See my preceding posts.

Calling trans women men doesn't have anything to do with Having Concerns About Spaces, it's just abusive behaviour.

It has everything to do with single sex spaces. The OP says she was out with friends. What would happen if the TIM wanted to use the toilet and headed towards the ladies'? Would it be OK for the OP to point out to him that he should use the men's?

And even though I don't believe that it's possible to change sex, I'd call her what she wanted. There's a difference between agreeing with someone on everything, and being purposely, routinely hostile.

No transphobia on Mumsnet. No, none. Never.

At last - my genius is recognised!!

🥳

You can be respectful but still judge someone, and you don’t have to express your judgement out loud.

Apologies, that last was directed at the genius that is @MagpiePi

I am brilliant with basic technology, yes.

Its not our place to judge how others live their lives. This person isn't hurting anyone. So why should she judge them. You don't have to agree with something, you can still treat people with respect.

I literally gave two other examples of the same abusive behaviour - and called them abuse.

Just tells me you have no answer to my basic point, which is that being rude to people isn't activism.

I think that you realistically need to just respect what they ask of you. It’s like calling someone their preferred name.

Interesting how disagreeing or being rude is ramped up to actual abuse when it comes to trans issues.

Yeah, it is. Being rude because you don't approve of who someone is, isn't anything other than abuse.

Calling trans women men doesn't have anything to do with Having Concerns About Spaces, it's just abusive behaviour.

The people who condemned my mum, and the lesbian couple, thought they were righteous and pointing out the obvious too.

Being rude to people is not a public service.

So no one is allowed to judge a deluded young man and all the people colluding in his delusion, but @Manchesteruser who doesn’t want to go along with that delusion must be judged to fuck?

You’ve certainly drunk all the #BeKiiiiind KoolAid.

‘

Err, its just a social gathering of acquaintances not an intervention. How would you like a virtual stranger charging upto you publicly imposing their non expert uninvited medical 'advice'?

Who's really struggling 'mentally' here isn't who you think it is.

There's a time & place for political protest/truth telling/free speech & it isn't family & social get togethers. And anyone who thinks it is doesn't deserve to live in civilised society.

When in the presence of someone who is clearly struggling mentally, let's all just ignore it, go along with his delusion because that's what's easy for us. That way we don't have to interrupt our lives, we don't have to deal with a hard thing, we're not bothered in our lives in anyway whatsoever, and that's all that counts.

Because it's someone else's problem right.

You said this person was lovely. Call them by their name and don't be judgemental.

After my mum remarried (50 years or so back) certain people refused to call her by her new surname. Some wouldn't speak to her at all, and one born-again Christian mum of one of my friends told me she'd burn in hell for being divorced. I'll let you imagine how they treated a local lesbian couple who had kids.

Calling a man 'he' is hardly comparable to this.

I’d refer to him and address him by his chosen name (I changed my name at 18 due to hating it, so can’t really argue that people shouldn’t choose their own name if they want to!), but I wouldn’t use “she” or join in the pretence of him being a woman.

If challenged I’d be polite about it, but just say that I’m gender critical, don’t believe it’s possible to change sex, and so I consider “Julie” to be a man.

If that led to a row or nastiness I’d just shrug, say “well I disagree but there’s no point arguing about it, I’ll head off now so you can get on with the night without distractions” and then just leave with a cheerful smile and wave.

But then I’m in my 50s, give zero fucks, and am just as happy to head home and watch strictly rather than be out. I think it’s a much harder situation for younger women tbh.

I won't use wrong sex pronouns myself, but really, most of the time, I don't find it necessary to use pronouns at all.
If someone is physically there, I wouldn't be talking about them in front of them without including them anyway, and if for any reason I did need to, I'd use their name. " Oh, where's Julie suddenly gone?" Type thing.
I won't lie, but I won't be rude either.

Would you be 'uncomfortable' if someone referred to you as a 'he' when you preferred 'she'? Do you expect your 'comfort' to be respected?

Do unto others…?

Social conventions aren't supposed to be political statements or 'truth statements'. They are just a way of using politeness to enable social cohesion in social settings. Same way I don't need to lose my shit if a bloke opens a door for me because I'm a feminist. And the same way I don't need to tell the 'truth' about how I am when they politely ask.

There's a time & place for political protest/truth telling/free speech & it isn't family & social get togethers. And anyone who thinks it is doesn't deserve to live in civilised society.

This, they all creep me out far too much, I just don't want to be around people pandering to a man like that.
It bothers me less being at protests where they are as then I'm with like minded others.