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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to respond he/she?

339 replies

Manchesteruser · 06/06/2026 00:00

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

OP posts:
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OldCrone · 06/06/2026 21:45

Try reading what older trans people have written on this subject, it may open your eyes.

Be careful what you wish for...

Here's one example (if MNHQ don't censor it).

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How to respond he/she?
OldCrone · 06/06/2026 21:35

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:20

Christ on a unicycle juggling baguettes, stop being misogynistic.

You don't speak for women, least of all me. Your patronising inability to understand that lots of us have absolutely no issue with trans people really isn't our problem.

As for an explanation, here you go: some people are trans, and lots of people are fine with that. We get really annoyed when people are unnecessarily rude to our trans friends, same as we do when they're being homophobic.

some people are trans

Can you explain what you mean by this? Do you mean some people think they are the opposite sex? Or perhaps some people really, really want to be the opposite sex? Or do you believe that some people are literally 'born in the wrong body'?

Or do you mean something else entirely? It would help to know exactly what you believe 'being trans' actually is.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:34

ConstanzeMozart · 06/06/2026 19:01

Well, it’s not an observable biological/physical fact, like being female or having white or dark skin or being a certain age.
It is more akin to a belief than to anything else.

Being gay isn't an observable fact. Homophobes have always claimed it was a lifestyle choice.

I'm afraid being trans is real, and normal.

Claiming it's a belief is just ignorance. You aren't trans, and clearly don't have any close trans friends - perhaps educate yourself. Listen to other people.

No one would invent being trans. Living as trans is violent, difficult and intensely stressful - but essential, because of how it heals dysphoria. Try reading what older trans people have written on this subject, it may open your eyes.

SwirlyGates · 06/06/2026 21:29

We get really annoyed when people are unnecessarily rude to our trans friends

You mean using correct-sex pronouns? Some people don't like lying. Some people are really angry at the takeover of women's stuff by men who say they are women. Some people would rather avoid trans people due to being expected to lie, or because they are angry at the takeover - oh, but that's being transphobic, isn't it, we aren't allowed to leave a situation which has a negative effect on us, right?

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:20

TheKeatingFive · 06/06/2026 20:19

Can someone please explain to me why lying to someone (in the form of using wrong sex pronouns) is characterised as 'politeness'?

It really worries me that so many women are caving to what men want (regardless of the impact on women) because they have been told it's 'manners'.

Like Christ on a bike, the men have done such a number on you.

Christ on a unicycle juggling baguettes, stop being misogynistic.

You don't speak for women, least of all me. Your patronising inability to understand that lots of us have absolutely no issue with trans people really isn't our problem.

As for an explanation, here you go: some people are trans, and lots of people are fine with that. We get really annoyed when people are unnecessarily rude to our trans friends, same as we do when they're being homophobic.

Mingou · 06/06/2026 21:19

Baileyonice · 06/06/2026 03:56

Would you be 'uncomfortable' if someone referred to you as a 'he' when you preferred 'she'? Do you expect your 'comfort' to be respected?

Do unto others…?

Social conventions aren't supposed to be political statements or 'truth statements'. They are just a way of using politeness to enable social cohesion in social settings. Same way I don't need to lose my shit if a bloke opens a door for me because I'm a feminist. And the same way I don't need to tell the 'truth' about how I am when they politely ask.

There's a time & place for political protest/truth telling/free speech & it isn't family & social get togethers. And anyone who thinks it is doesn't deserve to live in civilised society.

She doesn't prefer she, she is a she. It's a matter of fact, not convention. In much the same way as the man mentioned in the OP simply is a he.

SwirlyGates · 06/06/2026 21:16

I feel like wrong-sex pronouns are lies, and I hate to be expected to lie. I also find it ridiculous when those around me take part in these lies.

Those of you on this thread who think it is respectful or polite to call a male "she" because that's what he wants, how would you feel if I claimed to be the queen and expected everyone to address me as, "Your Majesty," instead of by my name? Or if I said I were a vicar when I wasn't, and wanted you to call me "Reverend"? Or if I said I were a doctor and wanted you to call me "Doctor"? Would you be ok with this, or would you be annoyed at being expected to go along with it? Would you consider it a lie?

And no, it is not always possible to avoid pronouns in front of a person, especially if other people are there too. Anyone who says they don't use someone's pronouns in front of them either hasn't noticed, or has weird conversations. You often use pronouns when talking about each other; repeating someone's name instead is clunky and obvious, and using "they" would be just as provocative as using the right-sex pronouns.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:08

LizandDerekGoals · 06/06/2026 18:09

Do you not think it is deeply offensive to liken a man being called he to donestic abuse? How are you not ashamed of yourself for even suggesting that a factual word is the same as abuse?

wtf is wrong with people?

A word for "makes stuff up and claims you said it" would be incredibly useful on here.

Because I said abuse. Not domestic abuse. My comparison was with the abuse suffered by other, previously marginalised group.

And again, being rude to people doesn't make you heroic, a truth-teller, activist or public servant.

Keep up.

TheKeatingFive · 06/06/2026 20:19

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 18:00

Being trans isn't a belief, and characterising it as such is narrow-minded bigotry.

Failing to be polite to people isn't activism.

Can someone please explain to me why lying to someone (in the form of using wrong sex pronouns) is characterised as 'politeness'?

It really worries me that so many women are caving to what men want (regardless of the impact on women) because they have been told it's 'manners'.

Like Christ on a bike, the men have done such a number on you.

TheKeatingFive · 06/06/2026 20:16

Indianajet · 06/06/2026 18:01

It really isn't your place, ever. None of your business.
Before you ask, I am happy to share space with transwomen, and to treat them with respect. Why they are trans, is none of my business.

Well you are welcome to go and hang out with men in unisex spaces but I hope you understand that you have no right to consent on behalf of other women. Women's single sex spaces are not yours to give away.

MissFancyDay · 06/06/2026 19:34

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 18:00

Being trans isn't a belief, and characterising it as such is narrow-minded bigotry.

Failing to be polite to people isn't activism.

Being trans, in the form that we are expected to accept, that is TWAW and TMAM, is a belief and has no basis at all in scientific fact.

ConstanzeMozart · 06/06/2026 19:01

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 18:00

Being trans isn't a belief, and characterising it as such is narrow-minded bigotry.

Failing to be polite to people isn't activism.

Well, it’s not an observable biological/physical fact, like being female or having white or dark skin or being a certain age.
It is more akin to a belief than to anything else.

ConstanzeMozart · 06/06/2026 18:59

I wouldn’t have asked anyone why they call him she. It’s pretty obvious and it’s likely to get their backs up.
It’s easy enough to avoid awkwardness when someone is actually present as you wouldn’t say he or she anyway (unless you were deliberately cat’s-mothering them!)

Okiedokie123 · 06/06/2026 18:45

Indianajet · 06/06/2026 18:01

It really isn't your place, ever. None of your business.
Before you ask, I am happy to share space with transwomen, and to treat them with respect. Why they are trans, is none of my business.

It is though. Trans identifying males use women’s loos, take part in women’s sports, join menopause support groups, use the women’s pond at Hamstead Heath, they join lesbian groups, sign up to dating apps as “women” searching for women. They behave in a threatening and/or poor me way when women say nah mate this space isn’t for men. And that’s just a few of the ways it is my and other women’s business. Lots more examples.
It should always be my and every women’s right to assert our place and right as women to be women. It is my business.
I will not wheesht. I will not shut up about it.

If you are happy to enable men to share your spaces while they enjoying fetishizing womanhood crack on but I will not sit quietly as you do that.

LizandDerekGoals · 06/06/2026 18:09

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 02:46

It's about being abusive, not disrespectful.

After my mum remarried (50 years or so back) certain people refused to call her by her new surname. Some wouldn't speak to her at all, and one born-again Christian mum of one of my friends told me she'd burn in hell for being divorced. I'll let you imagine how they treated a local lesbian couple who had kids.

Abusing people is always a choice, however you choose to excuse it.

I'd suggest you take some time to get to know your friend's friend, and realise they're a perfectly normal person who happens to be trans. Once you get to know them, you'll find it second-nature to use her name and pronouns, because you'll see her as a person. you

This really is your problem, not hers. It's worth trying to overcome it for your own sake.

Do you not think it is deeply offensive to liken a man being called he to donestic abuse? How are you not ashamed of yourself for even suggesting that a factual word is the same as abuse?

wtf is wrong with people?

LizandDerekGoals · 06/06/2026 18:03

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 06/06/2026 00:38

It's not really up to you to dictate how others want to refer to people. You don't have to use she yourself if you don't want to but others are allowed to. They don't need your approval.

Of course it is up to op how she refers to someone else. What is odd is someone wants other people to refer to them when they aren't even there. Massively controlling.

Indianajet · 06/06/2026 18:01

Okiedokie123 · 06/06/2026 10:22

What?? I’m not transphobic. I just don’t want to hang around with someone who is clearly unwell. Or their parent/ anyone else who is endorsing it as I think that’s abusive.
I also don’t want to offend so it’s better for me to leave so no chance of causing offence causing offence.
Ideally I’d want to talk to them to try and help them see sense but a night out isn’t really the place is it!

It really isn't your place, ever. None of your business.
Before you ask, I am happy to share space with transwomen, and to treat them with respect. Why they are trans, is none of my business.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 18:00

FrippEnos · 06/06/2026 13:01

It is rude and abusive to expect people to follow your beliefs when they do not. It is also abusive/illegal for him to use single sex spaces that do not match his biological sex.

Edited

Being trans isn't a belief, and characterising it as such is narrow-minded bigotry.

Failing to be polite to people isn't activism.

MissFancyDay · 06/06/2026 17:54

Surely you won't need to use a pronoun if he is with you. As people said just use his chosen name or use they. They has always been a perfectly acceptable way to talk about someone, " can't see Pricilla, they must have left"

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 17:39

rocer · 06/06/2026 09:08

But disapproving of someone pretending to be something he's not is different from disapproving of who someone is. Isn't it?

Can you see how this distinction might be relevant in this case?

Even if someone really believes he is something he isn't, politeness and general good sense might lie with the truth rather than support for something plainly false. No?

Suppose I tell you I'm super cool and astonishingly attractive, and that I know all the answers to life's most difficult questions. Will you genuflect towards me, defer to me, tell me I'm lovely, and do whatever I say? Your argument seems to suggest that it would be rude - bordering on abusive - not to do so. Hmm?

Depends. If I knew of you as someone who called themselves All-Knowing, I'd find that quietly amusing.

But in company, because I'm not a rude, bigoted person wishing to be abusive to anyone, I'd call you Al.

p.s. Well done for missing my point. The people abusing my mum and the lesbian couple thought they were against nature, and pretending to be something they weren't.

To them, it was obvious that my mum was a terrible person who'd chosen an unrighteous path - and that gay people couldn't be in relationships.

Comparing being trans with arrogance, showing off and selfishness is bigotry, I'm afraid. Try educating yourself, meeting some trans people and stop pronouncing on stuff you don't understand.

FrippEnos · 06/06/2026 16:59

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 06/06/2026 14:18

To be fair there's no indication that this person went to the ladies loo. A lot of places now have unisex toilets.

Alot of places always had "unisex" toilets. Small cafes etc. that hasn't changed and does not need to be changed.
But more places don't have "unisex" toilets.
But then if people can't respect the dignity and safety of others then its hypocritical to demand it back

GCornotGCthatisthequestion · 06/06/2026 14:18

FrippEnos · 06/06/2026 13:01

It is rude and abusive to expect people to follow your beliefs when they do not. It is also abusive/illegal for him to use single sex spaces that do not match his biological sex.

Edited

To be fair there's no indication that this person went to the ladies loo. A lot of places now have unisex toilets.

RedToothBrush · 06/06/2026 14:12

It depends on how close I was to them.

If I didn't know well, I'd avoid use of pronouns full stop.

If I knew I'd have a long chat about how much I loved and respected and didn't want to upset but I just couldn't do it for very lengthy reasons. Anyone who knows me well knows where I stand on this and why. And yes I have actually done this. It was fine.

murasaki · 06/06/2026 13:35

I'd refuse to say she and just use the name. Tbh i wouldn't talk about him if he wasn't there, I'd talk to him if i were in a group conversation, but I'd be trying to extricate myself from the situation. I hope he was using the gents.

MCF86 · 06/06/2026 13:09

I don't think I ever use pronouns when the person is in the room, I don't understand the problem in this particular circumstance.

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