'Educate yourself'

It’s always the people who are as thick as shit that tell others to educate themselves. Last time I was told to educate myself on trans matters was by someone who was trying to tell me that it’s very difficult to tell the difference between males and females and that sex is a spectrum.

For me I don't even care what the issue being discussed is. If I get "educate yourself" to me that's a shutdown, it's a sign that worthwhile discussion won't be found here. Time to move on to something more useful.

It's probably related to a New Year's resolution I had a while back which was to be very discerning about taking on other people's ugliness. I can feel sorry for a person that's suffering but the behaviour can still put me right off.

Educating myself was how I turned full terf 😂

This phrase for me means the person I'm talking to is a full on conspiracy bonkers nut - and this is based purely on experience. I had a "friend" who said this to me (regarding some other issue) and when I said - OK, so help me to educate myself - the said person sent me a barrage of YouTube videos by a variety of repulsive, thick, and nasty wankers spouting complete bollocks. I was really shocked at what this person thought was true - denying anything in "mainstream media" but believing unquestionably some weirdo in the US with no qualification and a shady background. It changed my perception of this "friend" completely, I actually thought she was mentally unwell. I don't talk to her anymore.

With regards to GC thinking - I used to be full on TWAW, "be kind" etc until I actually went and educated myself. Needless to say, I'm firmly in GC camp now.

Anyone who has a proper degree from a decent university is surely more likely to engage in a respectful discussion, because they have the ability to do so and because they aren’t threatened by an opposing view?

That ought to be the case, but I think now that Universities are some of the worst culprits for closing off debate. The way that Jo Pearson OU and Kathleen Stock Sussex were treated immediately come to mind.

It means “indoctrinate yourself”. It means you have to go away and come back with the “right” way of thinking, not any actual education.

I fully agree with you. However I get the impression that only uneducated people use the phrase “educate yourself.” It is commonly used on the “Family Lowdown”
forum where the level of debate is not very sophisticated.

Anyone who has a proper degree from a decent university is surely more likely to engage in a respectful discussion, because they have the ability to do so and because they aren’t threatened by an opposing view?

This 'educate yourself' stuff reminds me of the person who posted on facebook about it being Transawareness day.

I am now very much more aware of Trans issues - but I strongly suspect not in the way she wanted me to be aware.

A variation on educate yourself is the virtuous trans ally telling you that we "cis" hoi polloi can't possibly expect to understand transness and so we must just "listen to trans people" ("uncritically and without questioning" being understood.) Any attempt, however sympathetic, to figure out how and why trans identities develop, is apparently lese majeste.

I really like this.

Educate yourself = I am unable to come up with any logical arguments to refute your position so I want to shut down the debate in case you make me look stupid.

I think it depends on context. If it is a space where a minority or oppressed group is speaking, then 'educate yourself' can be a reasonable request to a would-be ally.

If it is a lazy and ill-informed colleague, it just means 'read the same crap that I read on facebook and agree with me'.

For people who can't understand the arguments (or understand them and know that they are rubbish) it is definitely a verbal flounce, as you say.

It is our repeat visitors here that interest me, though. Especially the ones who profess to be feminists / trans-allies / working in a caring profession / well-qualified / trans parents. They have gone out of their way to visit a thread where predominantly GC women are speaking and yet, rather than convert us with their words of wisdom, they mess around and then flounce with some version of educate yourself / I'm not doing your work for you / I don't respond to gender criticals' demands. They make it crystal clear to me that there are no sound arguments for GI. Without them, I might still be looking for answers.

It's fine to suggest people may benefit from listening, learning, researching, applying critical thinking. We should all keep open minds about things as much as is reasonable.

This isn't always what is meant by 'educate yourself!'

It's sometimes used as dismissal by people who can't actually make, or even understand, the arguments themselves.

I've had it snapped at me when someone has painted himself into a corner in an argument. Basically it was a verbal flounce.

https://archive.org/details/thoughtreformpsy0000lift

Available to read on the archive!

My standard reply - I have had a great education thanks, especially in Biology.

Where as I agree with you, I'm not having it, it's suppose to get warmer, Global Warming, I can't be having with the cold. No, no, no, 😭

To be fair, I first heard 'educate yourself' being used by POC asking white people to educate themselves instead of constantly pestering POC to do the leg work for them, and I have some sympathy with their pov. Similarly with MyShyCat who, IMHO, would benefit from reading more of the threads here before engaging.

However, it is clear that with GI 'educate yourself' means read the same old books written by men who say they are women and a couple of dodgy research papers and... that's it, unless you want to wade through some ultimately irrelevant Judith Butler. Genderism is a castle built on sand, and they know it.

The phrase thought terminating cliche was absolutely a light bulb moment for me.

It shows up the authoritarian nature. It shows up the superiority and smugness that somehow these are enlightened people who know better and you should know your place.

It's a phrase that is there to almost intimidate a lot of people either because they haven't the ability to compete with university educated types, the time to invest in educating themselves or they haven't got the confidence to adequately challenge people like this who dominate conversations.

Once you realise it's a façade to stop debate and conversation on the topic it really has the reverse effect and opens it up.

Educating myself was what turned me from my previous "Be Kind" stance to a fully-fledged TERF.

Very true, they all resort to having no arguments. Though I am a climate sceptic in the sense that I think the 'catastrophe now!' narrative is built on hysteria, my arguments to support scepticism are historical and scientific, and my position is that climate change is a natural phenomenon, driven by the sun and the earth's own systems and that we are not wholly to blame for the current changes, which are somewhat speeded up but not unnatural. We are in an interglacial period and an ice age is overdue. The signs of an ice age pending are warming, which allows the ice fields of the poles to melt, thus cooling the oceans, which leads to cooling of the land masses and global cooling, so global warming is an indicator that our particular inter-glacial period is on the wane and we had better start adjusting.
Edited for a Freudian slip.

Especially irritating when, despite taking the opposing position, you are pretty confident you could actually argue for their side better than they can!

I think there's also an assumption of "you don't know how it feels". Whereas actually many of us know exactly what it is to feel unhappy in our sexed body and with our societally-imposes gender role and still don't think that's a good reason to adopt some nonsensical ideology, however faddish it might be.

Given the way you replied to me on another thread, I’ll repeat what I said to you on the other thread.

you need to look internally and get clued up on consent.

I asked you to stop doing something I considered creepy, and you kept doing it because (my paraphrase) I didn’t shut up and go away and kept calling you out.

As to educate myself, I have. That’s why I object to men in women’s single sex spaces.

I’m educating myself right now.

Hmmm, you've got "managing to sound like a reasonable guy while still mansplaining" down to a T, don't you?

@BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth thanks for the schooling