Friends suggesting transphobia and misogyny both rooted in policing gender roles

No two.humans are the same

Sex being immutable doesnt mean that all men think this and all women think that.

People hold a wide range of sometimes opposing political and cultural views and also believe that sex is immutable and important.

'Gender critical' means questioning gender, but it's difficult to avoid crime figures demonstrating that the overwhelming majority of violent and sexual crime is committed by men. Whether that is because of nature or nurture is debated, but the fact is difficult to avoid.

What group of people are saying there’s no difference and we are all the same?

People hold a wide range of sometimes opposing political and cultural views and also believe that sex is immutable and important.

'Gender critical' means questioning gender, but it's difficult to avoid crime figures demonstrating that the overwhelming majority of violent and sexual crime is committed by men. Whether that is because of nature or nurture is debated, but the fact is difficult to avoid.

Who says it means anything about whether trans women are women or not? I am just saying that it is obvious that many of you here are very entrenched in sex based stereotypes which yes, are sexist. It's a comment about the environment here. I find it funny that trans people and their supporters have equally rigid views about sex and gender. Like peas and carrots, you all are.

I think some are big boys for sure. That's pretty obvious.

Others just believe that girls are made of nice stuff and boys made of yucky stuff.

Mate, it still doesn’t mean a group of men are anything other than men. However sexist or non sexist the belief the individual speaker holds. However much you disapprove of the speaker. Zero effort whataboutery 🤷‍♀️ that’s all you have though, clearly.

No i read exactly what is said. I know what they like to say when pressed but I also know what they voluntarily give away when they are just chatting and not on guard. It's very slugs, snails and puppy dog tails

You think that gender critical women on mumsnet are little boys?

I mean it's possible. It's an anonymous talk board.

You really need to pay attention to what is argued in court.

No i read exactly what is said. I know what they like to say when pressed but I also know what they voluntarily give away when they are just chatting and not on guard. It's very slugs, snails and puppy dog tails

Except the GC posters on here are pretty consistent in saying the exact opposite to that.
Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension in general or is it just on mumsnet?

I'm a parent who doesn't spend my life vexing about a minority and imagining it's feminism.

I'd never reject my child for who they are, or try to control them.

The vast, vast majority of trans kids will never even get counselling for their gender dysphoria. Surgery for under-18s is banned most places.

But trans men are being forced towards surgery by denial of care when they were younger, which is awful.

Anyone who obsesses over children's bodies online should really consider how they look to other people. It's suspect as hell, given the tiny number of trans kids who take hormones or blockers.

Women's rights are undermined by anti-trans activism. It promotes gender conformity, disparages female accomplishment in sport, and encourages the idea of limiting what young women should be able to do with their bodies.

It attracts men who like talking about children's bodies, the far right (because it normalises the use of slurs, encourages the idea that minorities can be attacked, infantilises women) and people who enjoy bullying.

I've encountered some good people on here. But many are simply eager to throw hate, resorting to furious sarcasm and glorying in being abusive. That is resulting in a lot of real-world violence, while doing nothing to combat VAWG.

It's enjoyable, though. Far more fun to discuss whether trans women should be allowed to modify their bodies than reckon with the horrifying rape injustice stories of the past week.

But I think my biggest issue with transphobia is how it lets violent cis men off the hook. Their abhorrent behaviour is seen as inevitable and unchallengable, so best focus on making sure completely public, unprotected spaces don't contain the odd trans woman instead. Throw some slurs at them, make it a game! Maybe film a few signs? Be furious when a trans man appears on a dating show - that'll help! Oh look, a flag! In Waitrose!

Meanwhile, violent cis men and paedophiles are delighted, because they can join in too. Telling women they'll be their protectors. Attacking parents for standing up for their kids.

I'm a parent who rejects the petty, do-nothing, deeply reductionist opinions of transphobia, and is right now praying my child comes home safe.

Well, you asked.

What I notice about both very pro-trans rights people and GC people on places like here is that they do share very rigid ideas about the sexes.

It's veey much like men are X and women are Y (or maybe the other way around!). Most arguments on both sides are founded in the belief that men have a shared set of thoughts, behaviours and intentions and women do, too. It's interesting to watch.

Are you understanding that many people are not engaging in a mating ritual when they choose their clothes in the morning?

This is one of the reasons GI supporters love "no debate".

It isn't just to shut sex realists up - it's because they are unable to make solid arguments and "no debate" gets them out of having to do so.

I am honestly struggling to understand what the point of it is.

all it is proving to me is that men and women are biologically different and act and dress differently due to their different sexes and how they go about a mating ritual. Nothing at all to do with gender at all.