Friends suggesting transphobia and misogyny both rooted in policing gender roles

Except when they are mani-pedi nails, of course

Surely the male gender is nailed, while the female gender is pinned? Nails are far to manly for the little ladies.

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth is on fire today, got the whole gender thing nailed! * *

Or because you can get away with paying women next to nothing due to their lack of power and lace was very time intensive to make but could be done at home.

Just reading through responses. She had posted it on a particular interest group that she admins/ runs. I did ask last night what she meant by ‘living safely and authentically’ as she was talking about the need for us all to defend trans women’s rights to do that in order to protect our own right to define ourselves. She hasn’t responded. One other person has thanked her for being an ally

So all upper class males for a good century and a bit were trans? Could there have been some sort of social contagion? 🤔

My point exactly! "Pink" lace is clearly meant for the make sex, after having been bestowed upon them by the female sex who understood instinctively, psychologically (and sometimes physiologically) how to make "lace" as a physical manifestation of their inner femaleness.

I hope he didn't pay much for that portrait something in the proportions is very off.

Pink, lace, heels, long hair, hosiery - the epitome of masculinity

Perhaps they were channelling their inner "female" with flamboyant displays of lace?

. in Denmark in 1623, too. Very macho.

. in Denmark in 1623, too. Very macho.

Sorry I'm being a bit thick here, I was following your explaination nicely but then I thought what happened in 18th century Britain? Lace was pretty ubiquitous (among those that could afford it obviously). Did males disappear from all but the poorest classes?

Pink, lace, heels, long hair, hosiery - the epitome of masculinity

Ah, but lace is fundamental to understanding the difference between female and male, and lace has existed since the dawn of human existence. It's just that "lace" way back in the Mists of Time was a psychological concept that proto-humans hadn't developed the brain capacity to quite understand. Once we had evolved the capacity to understand "lace" as an integral part of human sex, it logically attached itself to the female sex, which it was able to do because, of course, "female" is the same sort of psychological manifestation of humanity. So, sort of like calling to like, as it were.

This is all quite clear, and very easy to understand, which most of us now have the capacity to do. What I do take issue with, are those people who seemingly can understand the fundamental nature of lace as a psychologically essential part of female makeup, but seem, oddly, incorrectly tied to the concept that the "lace" in question must be pink!

Now,if you're looking for a proper argument, let's discuss that!

Ah, but lace is fundamental to understanding the difference between female and male, and lace has existed since the dawn of human existence. It's just that "lace" way back in the Mists of Time was a psychological concept that proto-humans hadn't developed the brain capacity to quite understand. Once we had evolved the capacity to understand "lace" as an integral part of human sex, it logically attached itself to the female sex, which it was able to do because, of course, "female" is the same sort of psychological manifestation of humanity. So, sort of like calling to like, as it were.

This is all quite clear, and very easy to understand, which most of us now have the capacity to do. What I do take issue with, are those people who seemingly can understand the fundamental nature of lace as a psychologically essential part of female makeup, but seem, oddly, incorrectly tied to the concept that the "lace" in question must be pink!

Now,if you're looking for a proper argument, let's discuss that!

That relates to the deliberate attempt in late 1940s/1950s America and Europe to put women back in their box after they did many of the traditional 'men's jobs' during the war. Every time we show signs of getting something (some of) the blokes want it back.

Really tedious.

I do wonder how the human race reproduced prior to the invention of lace, what which it being so pivotal to womanhood. Did we split in two like ameoba?

Do people really believe that sex is in any way dependant things that didn't exist for the vast majority of the time humans walked the earth?

I haven't read that article, but my immediate response is to say that no one would expect sex differences to disappear as equality develops. Why would they? In fact as woman's equality progresses, the pressure to reinforce both sex differences and gender distinctions often becomes more pronounced as the patriarchy fights a rearguard action. "Ladies, you want to be corporate lawyers? Fine, but if you want to remain sexy and powerful, you better grow your hair long and wear high heels."

By sex differences, I am assuming you means the socially approved norms of gender expression? Science has pretty conclusively proved there is no meaningful difference in functionality between brains from male skulls and brains from female skulls.

Ahhh the curious case of Germaine Greer's 'metamorphosis' from gender non conforming dungaree wearing, unruly hair sans make up to feminine coifed stylised dyed hair, make up, jewellery, glasses & pretty dresses in her eighties?What 'dark cultural forces' could possibly have 'brain washed' someone who already knew & lived better about feminine stereotypes for much of their younger adult life?

The same 'dark forces' that 'brain washed' elite GC's JK Rowling, Helen Joyce & Maya Forstater into a blind worship for injected made up faces, long dyed hair & dresses but somehow bizarrely just like Greer wax lyrical about trans people single handedly maintaining feminine stereotypes?

Or maybe they like what the like because of their personal sensibilities?

We are to believe that they 'know' but yet 'don't know' about misogynistic sex stereotypes that 'caricature' women? The incoherence i breathtaking.

"... just like biology is being used to discriminate against trans people." No, not "just like" at all. Women's biology, which makes them uniquely vulnerable in ways men are not, and the needs caused by that biology, were used to restrict their freedoms. Men needed to control women's reproductive abilities in order to control children, lineage, inheritance and wealth distribution. False but convenient conclusions about women's intellectual abilities were based on the assumption that because men are physically stronger, they must also be intellectually superior, as if the one had a direct correlation with the other.

'Just like' as in biology was used as a reason to limit rights. The details of why biology was used is irrelevant to the fact it was used against both women & transpeople.

Biology is not being used to discriminate against trans-people. They are claiming membership of a sex class they simply do not belong to.Transwomen are not women, they are men. If their situation is analogous to anything, it's analogous to someone claiming to be a Muslim when they're not so that they can visit the Ka'aba in Mecca, as Richard Burton did. The difference is that anyone can become a Muslim, and then they'd be entitled to visit Mecca, but the only human beings who can be women are the ones whose biology is by nature female.

Biology is absolutely being used to prevent trans people from being included in their associated psychological sex class.

Your example is a false equivalence because trans people actually have an association to their psychological sex class unlike a person pretending to be muslim. (this has already been covered upthread).

You think they were born liking lacey things?

You understand how a society works, I'm sure - you'll agree that most of our values and manners are learned, rather than innate, and that a child brought up by wolves probably won't find and use a knife and fork for themselves?

If you don't believe that girls are taught to be 'feminine', just look at the amount of pink frilly stuff in the childrenswear dept.

And any fool can deduce that, in a system in which power is severely conscribed for a particular group, members of that group will will be forced to use whatever currency or power they are allowed to survive and, within the limits placed upon them, prosper.

It doesn't mean that gender exists, or that femininity inheres in femaleness. It just shows that women lack power.