Be Kind 2.0 and the "Persuasive TRA"

I also feel that there have been some attempts at bartering along the lines of 'give us the toilets and we'll give you the sports and RCCs'. I expect that for both HSTS and fetishists the toilets (and changing rooms?) is what they will miss most. I have wondered if that is what the 'sex is special category personal data' in the Guidance is trying to achieve; a situation where TIMs can access the toilets if they don't make a big show of it, in exchange for giving up on the rest of the demands for women's resources. It puts the onus back on women to tackle the men and the service providers and the employers, giving more opportunity for men to say 'well we tried to fix it, can we not all work together on this' wheedling that was outlined in the OP

Yes, well, the Supreme Court judgment was very good for transmen, they kept their pregnancy and maternity rights.

The short answer to So would allowing trans women access to the women's single-sex spaces be objectively justified, in that it creates a less hostile atmosphere for some service users? is "no".

Legally it's not a single-sex space it's a mixed-sex space. So you could offer a fully mixed-sex service because you didn't need a single-sex service in the first place; or else you could offer a women-only service plus a unisex service (like a row of women's bogs plus a unviersal bog; or else you could offer a women-only service plus some special service for biological women who can't access other women's services (like a rape crisis meeting for women with broken voices and beards due to testosterone use). That last one is a service for bio women with a trans identity. And that's allowed.

Seems to me that there is definitely an increased attempt to leverage the gnc women argument again. Quite a bit of 'the Guidance is bad for trans people, but it is also bad for women too <sad face>'.

Example on reddit last week:
For example, there are quite a few women who feel intimidated with the current atmosphere around sex policing. They may choose to avoid facilities and no longer be patrons of an establishment if there were strict enforcement of single-sex spaces. So would allowing trans women access to the women's single-sex spaces be objectively justified, in that it creates a less hostile atmosphere for some service users?

It reminds me of every International Women's day when the usual posts turn up from men complaining there isn't a Man's day, there is, but they don't know that because no woman's reminded them

'Be kind'

That ship has well and truly sailed. Appeasement should be off the table.

Are we supposed to forget the misogyny, harassment, the 'no debate' pillocks. The threats of violence, death threats, rape threats etc?

They've unequivocally shown us who they are. It should never be forgotten.

I agree.
And don't forget the Fog of Confusion 'But it's all so complicaaaaaated!' 🙄

Both OP's 'BeKind 2.0' and Marie's 'mirroring' seem accurate to me. Plenty of examples of both. The cynicism and bad faith is off the chart, of course.

Interesting thread. There's certainly a number of (likely sock puppet) posters with an insincere, oily approach, full of word salad while spouting insults - "good that you can read but such a shame your understanding is so limited". But I suspect they're simply the same bloke with a different name 😆
There are also a number of "I'm as GC as they come but....." who post seemingly reasonable posts and then, as they get challenged, lose their self control and end up spouting full on tra rhetoric and abuse. It's irritating but actually quite funny.

Hopefully they're finally realising that the displays of male violence, rage, spitting, pissing etc displayed by too many transactivists is merely cementing in the public's mind that these activists should be nowhere near children or places where girls and women undress.

Hence the different tactics on here. It's too late as the receipts about the violence and abuse of women are fully documented. But they'll still try 🙄.

Also steeped in the usual misogyny - they know who the actual women are as they are the ones TRA#2 want to put all the work in.

What do we want?
just to pee Fourth spaces!
When do we want them?
When you've campaigned for them, got them built and delivered with a shiny bow!

You are most welcome 😊

I would encourage everyone to reflect back to male TRA allies that they should be starting 'You can pee next to me' campaigns and arrange to accompany their men who say they are women friends into the male toilets for safety.

Maybe they can make their own badges and hand them out at work?

@BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth the other tactic that's appearing is trying to make out this will be a bad thing for "cis" women _ how more masculine women will get attacked and thrown out of the ladies. Once again, they think we're daft, I know a woman when I see one

I came across a TRA article/guide a while ago that was encouraging use of the mirroring strategy. Unfortunately I've not been able to find it again

I agree with you.
There is something going on and I haven’t put my finger on it yet.
It appears to be about toilets and also changing rooms to some extent.
I do not understand any woman who’ll give a little leeway over these single sex spaces and I’ve seen that quite a bit ( on X rather than here). The line would be ‘well I’m here more for the rape crisis centres or prisons or sport’.
Not that these are unimportant but are you kidding me?

Of course trans activists will push hard on their ability to access these spaces, it’s where they can gain some sympathy, wobbling, compromise. People do need to pee after all. And locked cubicles! and better design! and let’s just all put our heads together and find solutions! and there’s consultations and proposals and work arounds.There’s a huge push on ‘well who knows anyone’s sex anyway?’ . All women are going to suffer the humiliation of their sex being queried. They see a soft spot there and it’s going to be tried out.

And it is all such complete bullshit.
Adults take responsibility for their own needs, without breaking the law or overriding basic safeguarding.
It is easy. It is simple.
Ask a mum with a pram, a dad with a young daughter, a parent with a child with autism terrified of hand driers, all kinds of people with all kinds of disabilities. …
Nobody has society cater to them perfectly.
You work out your needs, you research solutions, you find out where and what works for you, you advocate for better choices, you get on with life.
There are suitable facilities for men who wish to identify as women everywhere.
It is an imaginary problem.

It absolutely is related to the dynamics of abusive relationships.
Kept in the game for another round of gaslighting fun.
No.