Be Kind 2.0 and the "Persuasive TRA"

Spot on Bridget. There’s still some throwing their toys out of the pram but others have moved on to big pleading eyes and pllllleeeeaaassse.

Marie I think the distorted mirroring has been going on forever (DARVO, rights aren’t top trumps), it’s as though as well as skin walking women they want to wear our arguments as well. It’s a genuinely weird feeling to see an argument for women’s rights on here then, 6-18 m later, hear it adopted by TRAs.

No it hasn't. And you're not doing your son any favours by escalating the drama.

Agreed. And on this thread, and other similar ones, I'm left unclear what sex the 'son' actually is. But perhaps that's the idea...

Imagine what the same amount of government and employers' effort and will over the past 15 years could have done for disabled people's access to public life!

No it hasn't. And you're not doing your son any favours by escalating the drama.

Agreed. And on this thread, and other similar ones, I'm left unclear what sex the 'son' actually is. But perhaps that's the idea...

Not derailing at all! This tidal wave of misogyny has to eventually wash up somewhere, it's not going to just dissipate, as we all know. So it's important to be aware of every angle we can think of. I do think schools and activist employees were a weak point, and still are.

I imagine the brouhaha about toilets will eventually subside, because it never was about toilets anyway. That was just the most visible aspect of the ideology. What most of these men want is to shift society so that they can do whatever they want with women and children. If that wasn't the ultimate goal, then they would never have dragged the rest of us into this mess. And they would still be doing their "things" in private, and most of us would never have known.

Someone read about the 'is/ought problem' on Wiki* and decided that they are now a philosopher. Then it was used by other TRAs, thinking that it wins all arguments, and means that special men should use female single-sex facilities because they want to.

*Or it has been mentioned by a prominent TRA, such as Contrapoints or similar.

Fine, congratulate yourself. Still one of the most breathtakingly ignorant, offensive and quite frankly paranoid things I've ever read. And I've still got Christmas cards from my in-laws.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed also clearly has no idea about Sandie Peggie or the Darlington nurses. Or how many gyms have communal changing rooms with maybe a couple of cubicles.

As I've said, I'm the mum of someone who's trans. He was subjected to so much transphobic violence at school (most of it sexual) that he became suicidal, harmed himself and had to take many weeks off, severely affecting his exams. He was exhausted from hypervigilance and I consider it a small miracle he's alive.

He's been threatened, stalked, filmed and assaulted. All because trans people are considered fair game - cis boys would tell him that sexually touching him "doesn't count".

Dehumanisation and sexualisation of minorities causes real-world harm. It is ruining the lives of trans children and young trans people - many of whom are afraid to leave the house, have failed exams they were supposed to pass with flying colours, and face homelessness because of family rejection.

None of that helps cis women - but it is the sole tangible result of anti-trans activism.

There is no organised invasion of women's spaces. Trans women have been quietly using the Ladies toilet forever. But now, most young trans people cannot use any toilet when they go out. Their lives have been made even more intolerably difficult, and a bigger target drawn on their backs.

We are living in a terrible age for all women. Our services have been destroyed, there is no rape justice and we have no safe spaces. We aren't even safe at home, with drug-assisted partner rape likely affecting thousands of women on top of the more visible evil of DV.

Going after trans people is, I get it, much more fun than confronting the evil done by cis men. Not least because those men are eager to join in.

If something feels like a game - where you have agency, weapons and lawfare to help you - then it's not real activism against abuse.

Trans people aren't organising against women - but violent cis men are. And they love that they get to call themselves feminists and join in with the scapegoating.

You're fighting ghosts. Excluding a minority from public places does not solve rape, and it isn't child safeguarding. It's just bigotry.

And it's doing real harm. My son's scars are on his arms, not his chest. At least the exterior ones will heal.

He managed to survive school and is rebuilding his life. But he shouldn't have had to go through that. He shouldn't have had to listen to girls tell him he was scum for being trans, or have boys corner him demanding anal sex.

I am asking you: please read the words of trans children. Open season has been declared on them. They are sexualised, beaten and harassed every day in school - for a change of name and haircut. The vast, vast majority of them will never have any gender-affirming care - and most don't have a single adult at home who approves of them, or will protect them.

Being addicted to hate feels powerful, I get that. It's an antidote to the fear cis men force us to live with, all our lives. But anti-trans activism is solving nothing.

I found your words terrifying, because of how dehumanising they were. It is hard to credit how paranoid and aggressive your mindset appeared to be.

Conspiratorial thinking, and eagerness to collectively blame, were the reason for yesterday's riots - none of it was about the poor man who died, it just added to the pain of his parents.

Your post reminded me of them.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed also clearly has no idea about Sandie Peggie or the Darlington nurses. Or how many gyms have communal changing rooms with maybe a couple of cubicles.

As I've said, I'm the mum of someone who's trans. He was subjected to so much transphobic violence at school (most of it sexual) that he became suicidal, harmed himself and had to take many weeks off, severely affecting his exams. He was exhausted from hypervigilance and I consider it a small miracle he's alive.

He's been threatened, stalked, filmed and assaulted. All because trans people are considered fair game - cis boys would tell him that sexually touching him "doesn't count".

Dehumanisation and sexualisation of minorities causes real-world harm. It is ruining the lives of trans children and young trans people - many of whom are afraid to leave the house, have failed exams they were supposed to pass with flying colours, and face homelessness because of family rejection.

None of that helps cis women - but it is the sole tangible result of anti-trans activism.

There is no organised invasion of women's spaces. Trans women have been quietly using the Ladies toilet forever. But now, most young trans people cannot use any toilet when they go out. Their lives have been made even more intolerably difficult, and a bigger target drawn on their backs.

We are living in a terrible age for all women. Our services have been destroyed, there is no rape justice and we have no safe spaces. We aren't even safe at home, with drug-assisted partner rape likely affecting thousands of women on top of the more visible evil of DV.

Going after trans people is, I get it, much more fun than confronting the evil done by cis men. Not least because those men are eager to join in.

If something feels like a game - where you have agency, weapons and lawfare to help you - then it's not real activism against abuse.

Trans people aren't organising against women - but violent cis men are. And they love that they get to call themselves feminists and join in with the scapegoating.

You're fighting ghosts. Excluding a minority from public places does not solve rape, and it isn't child safeguarding. It's just bigotry.

And it's doing real harm. My son's scars are on his arms, not his chest. At least the exterior ones will heal.

He managed to survive school and is rebuilding his life. But he shouldn't have had to go through that. He shouldn't have had to listen to girls tell him he was scum for being trans, or have boys corner him demanding anal sex.

I am asking you: please read the words of trans children. Open season has been declared on them. They are sexualised, beaten and harassed every day in school - for a change of name and haircut. The vast, vast majority of them will never have any gender-affirming care - and most don't have a single adult at home who approves of them, or will protect them.

Being addicted to hate feels powerful, I get that. It's an antidote to the fear cis men force us to live with, all our lives. But anti-trans activism is solving nothing.

I found your words terrifying, because of how dehumanising they were. It is hard to credit how paranoid and aggressive your mindset appeared to be.

Conspiratorial thinking, and eagerness to collectively blame, were the reason for yesterday's riots - none of it was about the poor man who died, it just added to the pain of his parents.

Your post reminded me of them.

That's your call.

However, I really enjoy Japanese style bathing houses and unclothed saunas. Communal nakedness, but sex segregated.

Would you support changing the law to require that such places admit men (I am including transwomen in that group obviously) into unclothed women's areas, or would you support me in wanting the right to continue to have such places segregated by sex?

Would you, who does not even care to use such places and so loses nothnig by it, nevertheless advocate to take them away from the people who do?

As I've said, I'm the mum of someone who's trans. He was subjected to so much transphobic violence at school (most of it sexual) that he became suicidal, harmed himself and had to take many weeks off, severely affecting his exams. He was exhausted from hypervigilance and I consider it a small miracle he's alive.

He's been threatened, stalked, filmed and assaulted. All because trans people are considered fair game - cis boys would tell him that sexually touching him "doesn't count".

Dehumanisation and sexualisation of minorities causes real-world harm. It is ruining the lives of trans children and young trans people - many of whom are afraid to leave the house, have failed exams they were supposed to pass with flying colours, and face homelessness because of family rejection.

None of that helps cis women - but it is the sole tangible result of anti-trans activism.

There is no organised invasion of women's spaces. Trans women have been quietly using the Ladies toilet forever. But now, most young trans people cannot use any toilet when they go out. Their lives have been made even more intolerably difficult, and a bigger target drawn on their backs.

We are living in a terrible age for all women. Our services have been destroyed, there is no rape justice and we have no safe spaces. We aren't even safe at home, with drug-assisted partner rape likely affecting thousands of women on top of the more visible evil of DV.

Going after trans people is, I get it, much more fun than confronting the evil done by cis men. Not least because those men are eager to join in.

If something feels like a game - where you have agency, weapons and lawfare to help you - then it's not real activism against abuse.

Trans people aren't organising against women - but violent cis men are. And they love that they get to call themselves feminists and join in with the scapegoating.

You're fighting ghosts. Excluding a minority from public places does not solve rape, and it isn't child safeguarding. It's just bigotry.

And it's doing real harm. My son's scars are on his arms, not his chest. At least the exterior ones will heal.

He managed to survive school and is rebuilding his life. But he shouldn't have had to go through that. He shouldn't have had to listen to girls tell him he was scum for being trans, or have boys corner him demanding anal sex.

I am asking you: please read the words of trans children. Open season has been declared on them. They are sexualised, beaten and harassed every day in school - for a change of name and haircut. The vast, vast majority of them will never have any gender-affirming care - and most don't have a single adult at home who approves of them, or will protect them.

Being addicted to hate feels powerful, I get that. It's an antidote to the fear cis men force us to live with, all our lives. But anti-trans activism is solving nothing.

I found your words terrifying, because of how dehumanising they were. It is hard to credit how paranoid and aggressive your mindset appeared to be.

Conspiratorial thinking, and eagerness to collectively blame, were the reason for yesterday's riots - none of it was about the poor man who died, it just added to the pain of his parents.

Your post reminded me of them.

Erm, what?

I don't undress in front of other people, male or female, and never let my kids do so, because cubicles exist. Who advocated that?!

Christ this place is odd.

Treating minorities like they're conspiracies against you

Men are not a minority. Activists, thankfully, probably are.

Trans people are normal human beings

Yes, they are. So are women. A lot of transactivists do not act like normal human beings, and I am talking about activists.

Dehumanising them like this, inventing really odd scenarios and weaponising the language of domestic violence, is not normal behaviour.

You see what you want to see. Some of us who have been in abusive relationships can see the same patterns in how activists treat those they don't like. I think it's fair and necessary to point that out.

This is an information thread, for women to be aware of where activists' tactics may go next. If you don't like the thread, don't read it.

Don't Stonewall et al need to be careful about offering "inducements to discriminate" against GC staff? Or did they decide that having pretty much got away with it in Allison Bailey's case (all the blame fell on her employer and Stonewall weren't held responsible) they're in the clear from now on?

Erm, what?

I don't undress in front of other people, male or female, and never let my kids do so, because cubicles exist. Who advocated that?!

Christ this place is odd.