Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Be Kind 2.0 and the "Persuasive TRA"

437 replies

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 01/06/2026 12:00

This is a spinoff from another thread so as not to derail the original.

I thought it would be helpful to have a separate thread to discuss, and document, a phenomenon I have been seeing more regularly recently: the Persuasive TRA.

It occurred to me, after a few posters noted that the recent U-turns by a couple of politicians, and the wheedling TRA responses to the EHRC guidance, were akin to an abuser changing tactics and also asking us to "help" them in the new single-sex regime, that the whole thing is starting to pan out exactly as an abusive relationship often does. When is the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship? Normally, when she is leaving.

Well, women are leaving the abusive relationship with non-reality that men forced upon us some 15 years ago, and I would argue that now might be our most dangerous/difficult moment.

This is what I posted on the other thread:

I'm starting to see a bit more of what I am calling (in my own head) "Persuasive TRA." Now that they have lost everything that they bullied women for, some activists seem to be changing tack. Women must now fix the situation that TRAs have found themselves in. It seems to pivot on a sort of Be Kind 2.0.

I think women who have been in the game long enough will see through it, but we should be watchful. Stonewall is pivoting, activists are pivoting, and they will be preying on women's socialized kindness: watch for the destination and be on your guard.

I have read several posters on different threads appealing to everyone (women) to help calm trans-identified people's (men's) fears about what this new reality will look like, what it will mean for them (the men) now that they can't just do whatever they want anymore. What about the men's toilets? Are they safe? Where will they go? (Who will fix this problem?)

Well, apparently it is a problem that women can fix, if they just take a moment to think about it. Trans-identified men will be unsafe in the men's, so women need to join the fight to give these men something of their own.

Notice the pivot? The pleading? If you just... If you weren't so.... It can be different if you just... Sound familiar? To any woman who is in, or has escaped from, an abusive relationship, this will be all too familiar.

This is Be Kind 2.0. It's very similar to the original, except that instead of being forced to enjoy our abuse, we are being asked to fix it. And the "Persuasive TRAs" seem to be mobilizing, from what I have seen.

It won't start in the middle (with the women); it will start at the top (infiltrating government, think tanks, charities, etc.) and the bottom (schools). But they will use women to get this moving. Why not? It worked so well last time. And I believe that organizations like Stonewall will be leading the charge: the campaign can be something like Safe Spaces for Trans+ : All of Us Together.

If anyone else has seen this in action, it might be useful to keep a record of it here.

I imagine this thread will eventually be taken over by activists, but, until then, I would be interested in your thoughts.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 08/06/2026 23:42

From the charity sector (thanks to @IWantToRetire and contributors on the other thread)

https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/debra-allcock-tyler-charities-not-allow-fear-become-chief-decision-maker/governance/article/1960836

You are unlikely to face serious consequences for carefully considering evidence, taking legal advice and reaching a reasoned conclusion, even if that takes time. You are far more likely to face criticism for making a hasty decision that later proves to be flawed.

Delay changes, obfuscate, plead confusion, argue that it's too difficult, delay, delay, delay... This is one message coming from the charitable sector. (Must have been speaking to Bridget!)

Some activists seemingly digging in for the long haul.

OP posts:
Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 08/06/2026 23:29

Argonometra · 08/06/2026 22:21

Thanks, OP. I'm a gullible sort of person, so warnings like these really make a difference.

I'm glad you find it useful. I shall keep adding info here as I find it, as will others. If you think if anything, please do add it in here, it's all helpful!

(I imagine you are no more gullible than the rest of us. The twisting of words and their meanings seems to change weekly at the moment, and it's hard to keep up!)

OP posts:
Argonometra · 08/06/2026 22:21

Thanks, OP. I'm a gullible sort of person, so warnings like these really make a difference.

Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 07/06/2026 11:00

Another pivot point (well, it's really an old one, but just using different words):

(thanks to @nutmeg7 )

Are you saying that the EHRC and the Supreme Court went to all the trouble of confirming that single sex services mean single biological sex (not gender presentation) as part of a right wing plot to distract us all from defunded public services?

OP posts:
Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 07/06/2026 10:23

RedToothBrush · 05/06/2026 16:07

Beware the use of data to 'prove' there wasn't a problem.

We saw this with Bounty photographers. The NHS used the idea that because there were no officially logged complaints there wasn't a problem and it's not something they had an ability to be aware of and safeguard against, even though there's a whole huge load of legally binding consumer regulations about how you can't make high pressure sales in environments where people can't easily walk away or feel compelled to go along with.

Remember that MN was completely awash with women complaining about it and also expressing why they didn't make a complaint. Others commented they had complained unofficially but this didn't seem to be registering. All to do with women 'not wanting to make a fuss' and literally being told they should just be grateful they are alive and have healthy baby.

This was also all over the newspapers.

Yet despite the NHS being the largest employer in the country, no one who worked in these hospitals saw an article relating to their field of work and stopped for a second to think "hmm hang on a second".

It was only after MN intervened that politicians started to go "actually this isn't a great look is it?".

And then we've seen the same pattern repeat over treatment in maternity wards and the scandal that subsequently emerged.

And we have plenty here saying women are easy to ignore on the issue of women's rights being trampled by trans activists. Indeed it was a feature that Darlington NHS actively admitted in their decision making process with Rose. It was easier to say no to women than deal with a single individual who was male because they were more likely to complain.

Women need to get it into their heads that they need to complain unfortunately.

The NHS KNOWS how to manipulate a lack of complaints to suggest there is no problem to address. They have form for it. It's a deliberate strategy.

Edited

Beware the use of data to 'prove' there wasn't a problem.

Good point. We have been seeing, and saying, this for years. It's like the political system in China, or the unofficial intimidation and repercussions if anyone says anything contrary to what Trump wants to hear. Two sides of the same coin. They give you one guy to vote for, who are you going to vote for? Complain? We'll cut your livelihood off at the knees.

It's lose-lose at the moment, but we do at least have the law on the side of women's rights. Like you say, we just have to keep complaining, but I do realize that it's exhausting, and often impossible, for a lot of women.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 05/06/2026 16:07

Beware the use of data to 'prove' there wasn't a problem.

We saw this with Bounty photographers. The NHS used the idea that because there were no officially logged complaints there wasn't a problem and it's not something they had an ability to be aware of and safeguard against, even though there's a whole huge load of legally binding consumer regulations about how you can't make high pressure sales in environments where people can't easily walk away or feel compelled to go along with.

Remember that MN was completely awash with women complaining about it and also expressing why they didn't make a complaint. Others commented they had complained unofficially but this didn't seem to be registering. All to do with women 'not wanting to make a fuss' and literally being told they should just be grateful they are alive and have healthy baby.

This was also all over the newspapers.

Yet despite the NHS being the largest employer in the country, no one who worked in these hospitals saw an article relating to their field of work and stopped for a second to think "hmm hang on a second".

It was only after MN intervened that politicians started to go "actually this isn't a great look is it?".

And then we've seen the same pattern repeat over treatment in maternity wards and the scandal that subsequently emerged.

And we have plenty here saying women are easy to ignore on the issue of women's rights being trampled by trans activists. Indeed it was a feature that Darlington NHS actively admitted in their decision making process with Rose. It was easier to say no to women than deal with a single individual who was male because they were more likely to complain.

Women need to get it into their heads that they need to complain unfortunately.

The NHS KNOWS how to manipulate a lack of complaints to suggest there is no problem to address. They have form for it. It's a deliberate strategy.

Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 05/06/2026 15:19

EdithStourton · 05/06/2026 09:26

Oh, and I think I know what @FlirtsWithRhinos means.

Along the lines of 'No, those aren't really problems or uncomfortable facts - if you were as clever as me you'd know that.'
The other version is, 'You are not seeing the problem that doesn't exist is obvious to me with my mighty brain.' I have the feeling that this is Judith Butler's skillset.

Thank you! I was far too tired to work it out last night 😁

OP posts:
Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 05/06/2026 15:16

Heggettypeg · 04/06/2026 21:23

Another tack seems to be that wanting women-only spaces is somehow unfeminist and limits and diminishes women.

Much use of the word "segregation" (for its emotive, racist connotations), and a narrative that women's spaces were created by "the patriarchy" for women to be confined to or excluded into. Thus ignoring the true history of women's toilets, single-sex prison facilities, women's refuges and much else.

Related is Schrödinger's Safe Space. Safe and absolutely essential when it's a matter of transwomen being allowed to use it, but not a safe space at all when it's just for women.

The weak spot in the law is that it depends on enforcement and challenge to have any teeth. So the aim will be to persuade service providers not to bother with enforcement ("unworkable", "unkind" etc), and to guilt-trip or discourage service users into feeling they shouldn't complain or that it won't be worth it.

If that doesn't work, then look out for:

  • campaigns to change the law outright via Parliament
  • looking for holes in the law
  • dog-in-the manger campaigns, and threats of campaigns, to get women's spaces turned into mixed-sex spaces or shut down altogether.

Thanks for this, I hadn't really noticed the "segregation " tactic and yes, "unworkable" will be an argument we will have to combat.

Guilt-tripping women into not complaining will be one of the easiest techniques for activists to use, as it is the essence of "Be Kind 2.0." There will be a lot of attempts to argue that, yes, it is the law, but it really doesn't apply if nobody complains. We'll need to be firm on this. Women who don't really know what has been going on to diminish their single-sex spaces might be unsure about if this is true or not.

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 05/06/2026 09:30

EdithStourton · 05/06/2026 09:26

Oh, and I think I know what @FlirtsWithRhinos means.

Along the lines of 'No, those aren't really problems or uncomfortable facts - if you were as clever as me you'd know that.'
The other version is, 'You are not seeing the problem that doesn't exist is obvious to me with my mighty brain.' I have the feeling that this is Judith Butler's skillset.

Yes, exactly. You put it much better than me. Clever points to @EdithStourton 😁

EdithStourton · 05/06/2026 09:26

Oh, and I think I know what @FlirtsWithRhinos means.

Along the lines of 'No, those aren't really problems or uncomfortable facts - if you were as clever as me you'd know that.'
The other version is, 'You are not seeing the problem that doesn't exist is obvious to me with my mighty brain.' I have the feeling that this is Judith Butler's skillset.

EdithStourton · 05/06/2026 09:02

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 18:11

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9761-avoidant-personality-disorder

What’s the difference between avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety?

Avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety disorder (SAD)share similar features and behaviors. But they’re distinct conditions.

Social anxiety disorder (social phobia) happens when you have an intense and ongoing fear of being judged and watched by others. This leads people with SAD to avoid social situations.

People with AVPD also avoid social situations and relationships. But it has more to do with their low self-esteem than with anxiety. Anxiety is the core feature behind SAD, but it doesn’t have to be present with AVPD

(Just how is this any different from the disorder of Being A Teenager? see image attached)

Show quote history

That was 100% me as a teenager. Self-conscious, constant issues with not having a solid friendship group, thought I was ugly and stupid, and I couldn't take criticism.

And yet, at 18, over the course of about 6 months, I emerged from my self-imposed chrysalis and had an absolute blast at uni.

I was also a tomboy. I'd have been absolute prey for the genderwang.

BiologicalRobot · 04/06/2026 23:35

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/06/2026 22:59

Oi! My word salads are all my own doing thank you very much!

Show quote history

😂😂

I'm now hungry and even willing to eat a salad at this late hour. What happens if I eat one after midnight 🤔

RedToothBrush · 04/06/2026 23:12

moto748e · 04/06/2026 23:04

'Clever' is kinda a loaded word, though, isn't it? It implies a lot more than 'intelligent'.

I can be clever and utterly shit faced whilst able to spell. Sober and my punctuation and grammar goes to shit. Make of that what you will. I can make a relevant argument in both states.

moto748e · 04/06/2026 23:11

Well, let's just say, some words have a bit more elasticity about their meaning. Some, like 'woman', don't.

Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 23:08

moto748e · 04/06/2026 23:04

'Clever' is kinda a loaded word, though, isn't it? It implies a lot more than 'intelligent'.

Well, Flirts clearly knows what it means, so that must be the "clever" part...
...Right?

Oh, I'm done for tonight, it's just beyond me at this point!

OP posts:
moto748e · 04/06/2026 23:04

'Clever' is kinda a loaded word, though, isn't it? It implies a lot more than 'intelligent'.

Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 23:02

RedToothBrush · 04/06/2026 23:00

Clever and full of shit are two different things. Don't fall for it.

Show quote history

No, no I've got it! I know it's in there somewhere! <...just need a few minutes >

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 04/06/2026 23:00

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 22:25

It's far too late for me to even begin to understand this very clever statement, but I think it might be useful, so just pasting here for a later date:

FlirtsWithRhinos · Today 17:10
I work with a lot of very clever people.

The trap for the very clever is to be not quite as clever as they think they are, and to underestimate how clever other people may be. And so they dismiss issues they don't personally see as the other people just not being smart enough to see past the problems.

Clever and full of shit are two different things. Don't fall for it.

RedToothBrush · 04/06/2026 22:59

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 22:57

Don't start! It's too late for me! 😄

Show quote history

I've had far too much to drink today. Sadly I will think the same tomorrow when sobered up. My spelling is better whilst pissed.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/06/2026 22:59

BiologicalRobot · 04/06/2026 22:41

I suspect FWR has been around the TRAs too long and has absorbed their word saladness abilities. Or maybe I haven't been around enough clever people to understand 🤔 but dammit, I thought you lot would make me cleverer!

Oi! My word salads are all my own doing thank you very much!

RedToothBrush · 04/06/2026 22:58

mrshoho · 04/06/2026 21:44

And we will never forget poor old Nicola Sturgeon getting into such a tizzy because she couldn't bring herself to call Isla Bryson a man. In the end all she could say was that Isla Bryson was a... Rapist. Nicola Sturgeon who could talk the hind legs off a donkey but was left a gibbering wreck having to answer a simple question.

Nicola Sturgeon is a fuck wit who can't bring herself to call her fuckwit of a husband a grifting twat who helped himself to political funds because it might damage her reputation. Like diddums. I've spent the day dealing with worse.

Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 22:57

BiologicalRobot · 04/06/2026 22:41

I suspect FWR has been around the TRAs too long and has absorbed their word saladness abilities. Or maybe I haven't been around enough clever people to understand 🤔 but dammit, I thought you lot would make me cleverer!

Don't start! It's too late for me! 😄

OP posts:
BiologicalRobot · 04/06/2026 22:41

I suspect FWR has been around the TRAs too long and has absorbed their word saladness abilities. Or maybe I haven't been around enough clever people to understand 🤔 but dammit, I thought you lot would make me cleverer!

Original poster
BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 04/06/2026 22:25

It's far too late for me to even begin to understand this very clever statement, but I think it might be useful, so just pasting here for a later date:

FlirtsWithRhinos · Today 17:10
I work with a lot of very clever people.

The trap for the very clever is to be not quite as clever as they think they are, and to underestimate how clever other people may be. And so they dismiss issues they don't personally see as the other people just not being smart enough to see past the problems.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread