James Murray on R4 just now - TWANW

He's a bloke. He probably thinks women are making a big fuss about nothing and men should always get what they want, but he is doing whatever he thinks is expedient for his career. I wouldn't be surprised if Labour are trying to find ways to differentiate themselves from the Lib Dems and Greens and that they have decided that this is one of the ways to do that, at minimum risk to themselves since all polling shows the public are GC and the TRAs will never be satisfied with whatever you give them anyway.

The main thing I am interested in, at this point, is what will he do about the pb trial.

I always enjoyed when it was Justin Webb on the Today show. I was relieved when he stood his ground, and wouldn’t go along with the lie.

It is good if he has decided to admit the truth, and not to lie. Made easier to do because of the truly brave and decent people who stood up to battle for the rights of women and children whilst many/most went along with the lie because it was fashionable.

I need a TRA to arrive and explain to me. But there’s never one about when you need one.

Shall I spin around three times widdershins and snap my fingers?

THIS!!

We know from the ongoing opinion polls that the population are increasingly changing their minds in a GC direction. Why wouldn't this include politicians? They (politicians and general public) were coming from a perspective that organisations they trusted were manipulating them to not even listen properly to the arguments. For the general population, and I don't see why not for politicians too, when people start thinking properly about the questions, it all falls out. There's a whole "peaking" trope for the process.

Am I a hopeless optimist? The population in the opinion polls aren't lying for political advantage.

I have been looking at body language of a lot of people talking lately. This clip is fascinating.

He starts off quite normally, looking to the left (normal when you are remembering facts and thinking); but in the second half, starts blinking like a morse coder on acid (a sign of stress and/or deception).

So yes he has said it now and the TRAs will never forget it, but he doesn't mean it. Or if he does mean it, he knows full well the shitstorm he's unleased and is crapping himself.

Thanks @singthing

From the Telegraph: In 2022, Mr Murray, who was then a shadow Treasury minister, was repeatedly asked to define what a woman was. He replied: “I believe that trans women are women.”

😂

BBC have clipped segment that is another win.

https://x.com/BBCr4today/status/2061372258560487643

Telegraph article just arrived

Health Secretary: I changed my mind – trans women are not women
James Murray says he accepts difference between sex and gender and that single-sex spaces should be protected

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/06/01/james-murray-i-changed-my-mind-trans-women-not-women/

https://archive.is/jfMFG

Note by saying celebrate the win I am not saying we should trust people like Murray or Burnham who was also forced to tell the truth recently. We watch them like hawks. We have to celebrate our victories though.

The TAs were winning by FORCING people to lie and they celebrated when they did it. Remember them agonizing whether people believed it or not? No they accepted it might be performative, and celebrated they had the power to force some people to lie. They went insane when women told the truth.

We on the other hand are making people tell the truth when they would rather not. It is AMAZING we have the power to do that. Lets not be modest about it. We just need a LOT more wins. It only happened because of a bunch of heroes and Mumsnet played its role.

Remember Sir Ed Davey right now shows what it would be like if lying was still the main option :
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5536296-ed-davey-says-the-ehrc-code-has-failed-in-its-objective-and-calls-for-post-legislative-scrutiny-of-the-gra-ea-presumably-to-legally-allow-blokes-in-the-ladies?

IMPORTANT - Also the Lib Dems may force a debate/vote on the guidance in the next 40 days [they also might do nothing but whine]. If they do get a vote the votes of MPs like Murray will count. We need every vote on our side, on the side of reality. His position shows Labour are not going to vote the guidance down.

Actually having a majority in Parliament is the most important protection we can have.

For posterity - Telegraph article recounting the R4 interview.

https://archive.ph/jfMFG

I think the logic is they'll be forced into the men's toilets and everyone will suddenly have an epiphany and go oh my God you're a man I thought you were a feminine woman.

When a) in reality passing is absolutely impossible for 99.9% of these men. And let's face it, if they do, who's gonna know??

And b) gender neutral toilet are now two a penny. No outing necessary.

He didn't believe it when he said men were women, and he doesn't care now when he says they're not. It's just political expediency.

The one thing this issue has done for me, and many people, is ruin any vestige of faith I might have had in politicians.

Ninety nine percent are complete strangers to integrity.

All you can hope for now is that the writing on the wall is so crystal clear to him, that he gets off his arse and does something about it.

And that's because of women like FWS and Sex Matters, fuck all to do with him.

I understand that Trans people are really worried about being "outed" in the same way that gay people were because it would materially affect their ability to participate in life.

how could it possibly materially affect someone ability to participate in life if people knew they were trans-identifying?

This is repeated time and time again and it makes even less sense than TWAW.

Yep

A good start but he can have my respect only when he enforces single sex spaces in the NHS.

Bonus points for firing those deliberately ignoring the law

Couldn’t agree more.
Thank you. 🙏

Words are cheap. These are crumbs.
His answer still leaves him wiggle room.
I wouldn’t trust him an inch.

The Labour party panicked and changed their tune at the point of the Isla Bryson/ Nicola Sturgeon fiasco.
Supporting mixed sex spaces leaves them open to similar humiliation.
And it would only be a matter of time.
Hence James Murray and his ‘reflection’.

Decent human beings with intelligence/ integrity understand automatically and instinctively why women and girls need single sex spaces.

I’ll believe them when I see words being repeatedly translated into action.

Yes.

Look what's happening in Australia, docs there tying themselves in knots. They're going through the whole shit show again and again. It's painful to watch. Especially painful as we know their law actually needs changing, rather than ours in the UK which 'simply' seemed to require 'clarification' for those at the back.

I have started a separate thread to discuss this phenomenon, if anyone cares to, so as not to derail here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5536989-be-kind-20-and-the-persuasive-tra

I don't expect James Murray gives a flying fuck whether TWAW or not. It's just good that (a) he feels able or even obliged to say this much and (b) he has realised that saying TWAW will make him and his party look like prize tits with the electorate. (And might even lead to a giant camper van materialising in his mother-in-law's driveway)

As for third spaces etc well the Equality Act 2010 already supports them. It's a hard habit to break but trans people need to start campaigning for their actual rights under the Equality Act instead of trying to bend the Act out of shape to suit themselves.

I think most of the MPs who changed their opinion in light of the SC ruling are just biding their time until the law/society shifts so they can go back to being vocally TWAW. I frankly don't trust them and I woujld prefer they were not in parliament.

Yes, of course, but whilst we cannot control people's thoughts and feelings what we can do is win the argument when it comes to policy and practice......which we have. Though we'll still need to deal with those recalcitrants who won't or who, only begrudgingly, comply.

You can of course but no thanks. Women have managed to get closer to single sex spaces against backlash. Some of the opposition to women speaking up on here even.

He has zero integrity. Anyone saying they believed TWAW are lying toads and a traitor to women. We will never forget. But we will take today as another win and we won't berate the lying toad for his backflip when it suited him as we expect zero of such people.

And well done Justin Webb on getting that into the show today. Nicely done by him, a man of actual integrity who got castigated by the BBC for being honest in saying: “trans women, in other words males" I bet Justin was laughing today when he caught yet another lying toad ....