Should breast implants for males be made illegal?

Your inability to grasp that some people are just trans is the issue here.

Trans men, trans women and non-binary people don't exist for sexual reasons.

If trans women don't conform to gender stereotypes, they are not treated as women. It is societal insistence on gender role play which encourages medical transition.

Let me give you an example. Trans boys dramatically reduce their use of binders when they are accepted as boys.

And given that your 'reading' hasn't helped you realise that trans women develop breasts as a result of hormones then I hardly think you're qualified to make judgements about them.

Try reading what trans people themselves sat, rather than transphobic propaganda.

Is an AGP without breast implants any less dangerous than one with breast implants?

While this type of surgery isn't right for everyone there are many people who it does help.

Someone who I have known since childhood has transitioned (born female so no breast implants but has had a double mastectomy, takes testosterone). They pass for male and it is undeniable that they are much happier, are thriving and are achieving huge success in their career personal relationships in a way that weren't able to before. They paid for the surgery in their mid 30s after years and years of therapy. Surgery worked for them where therapy did not.

It only affects everyone else if everyone else has to pay for it
It doesn’t though. As OP clearly explains. AGPs are a danger to society.

Looking at society as a whole, I can't see any benefit to women and children of men being allowed to get silicone breast implants.....

However odd it may be for people to choose to spend their own money on body modifications, we cannot go down an authoritarian route of banning things based on there being no benefit to other people in them.

It would be just as outrageous the other way around - if, say, it was judged that most men don't really care about earrings or painted nails, so because it doesn't benefit them, women are banned from having their ears pierced and painting their nails.

I'm in favour of evidence based decision making. I'm just giving people the facts here. If you use private routes it can still cost the NHS/taxpayer money. It is not correct to say that cosmetic or more extreme forms of private surgery do not impinge on the NHS or taxpayer.

I think that there is probably a separate discussion to be had about where private surgery may actually be unethical, even if the patient is adamant that they want it. An extreme example might be someone demanding that their legs are removed and then asking for disability benefits etc. Would we allow that just because they wanted it or would we make them go through a lot of gatekeeping first or would we ban it outright?

We've gotta ask these questions: the State's money pot isn't bottomless.

It’s much much worse when the surgery has a complication.
The realisation that your nose was not the reason you were so unhappy either comes before you spend 10k with some inner soul searching and reflection on the shortness of life and the acceptance of imperfections, or after you spend 10k.
Infections, nerve damage, non healing wounds, fistulating wounds etc are a much worse outcome

Well yes much the same as if you injure yourself playing sport, get run over because you run out in busy traffic or get type 2 diabetes due to poor lifestyle choices.

All these things are self-inflicted and cost the NHS money but I'd rather live in a country where treatment for self inflicted things was available than not. Wouldn't you?

It's more of a comment on private surgery in general. People don't always realise that, if your private op starts going downhill fast, it's the NHS that will save you - if you can be taken to the acute hospital fast enough, of course.

If anorexia could be cured or eased by an operation I think most people would support it. I don't think anyone would be calling for the operation to be illegal because anorexia is a mental illness.

Coatsoff42
Ultimately, you aren’t younger, or a woman, or a devil, or miraculously thinner, or sexier or whatever you imagined. You’re just slightly ridiculous and £10k worse off.

It can be rather worse than that in some cases. There are people who persuade themselves that all their problems in life are caused by (let's say) a large nose. Their nose is why they are unpopular, did badly at school, have a dreary job.... So they save up, and they have surgery to reduce the size of their nose and get themselves the pert tip-tilted one of their dreams.

And it looks lovely.

But they are still unpopular, they still did badly at school, and their job has not miraculously become interesting and important. Oh, and they are £10k worse off, and they feel they are stupid to have expected changing their nose to help them.

I find that horrible.

Some transwomen retain their penis because they are still waiting for lower surgery, can't access it, or don't want to have it because it's a major surgery with risks involved. This doesn't automatically make them perverts or fetishists.

No, all adult people should have bodily autonomy. No matter how ill advised or what the motivation is, if cosmetic surgery is ok for women to chose then it should be ok for men to chose.

I think trying to police how other people look / want to look / should look is a slippery slope. Do you go from that to saying women can't have breast enhancement/ reduction? Or that only certain women/ certain sizes are allowed?

There's lots of cosmetic procedures, aesthetic procedures and body modifications that I think look awful and question the MH of those who have them but firmly believe - my body/ my choice applies to everyone.

In what way is it transphobic to refer to the men who for fetish reasons have breast implants to complement their fully functioning penises as "chicks with dicks". It's the name of their favourite porn genre. Just Google on the phrase. Surely you don't men that these perverts are trans?

I believe in the freedom to do whatever wierd plastic surgery you like. It’s no different to a horrific face lift, a dramatic tummy tuck, a random limb amputation, bizarre lumps under your forehead to look like horns…
None of it on the NHS, the rest is up to you to waste your money.
Ive seen enough plastic surgery go wrong and need NHS intervention that I think it’s all the same. It’s delusional but it’s up to you.

Ultimately, you aren’t younger, or a woman, or a devil, or miraculously thinner, or sexier or whatever you imagined. You’re just slightly ridiculous and £10k worse off.

These cases would be very unusual though. Certainly not enough to materially increase our tax bills. And let's be real there are a lot of things people choose to do with their lives which increase their risk of needing to see a doctor urgently, we don't ban those.

I think this is the kind of thing that should be considered improper medical practice, so not allowed on that basis. It shouldn't need to be illegal.

Yeah, so maybe a waiver signed, their medical notes updated and they are treated as “health tourists” and billed as such.

Uh, no!

I don't think it would be possible without banning a whole bunch of other cosmetic surgeries and procedures, which I may not want myself but I respect others' right to get if they so wish. I also think there should be legal and available routes to some of the other "extreme" body modifications that are currently effectively unavailable in the UK, such as tongue splitting, ear pointing and coin-slot modifications. In general I think that, as long as sensible safety regulations are put in place, we should have more bodily autonomy and not less.

Trouble is, the NHS (ie the rest of us) does end up bearing the cost of emergencies during surgery, where the patient gets blue-lit to the nearest acute NHS hospital, and the longer term morbidities that the private sector washes its hands of.

'Chicks with dicks'? No transphobia on Mumsnet, is there?

so you don't believe In bodily autonomy?

But that is on the individual. If they want to pay for that, and any further medical costs… that’s on them.