Should breast implants for males be made illegal?

I agree.

I think this is a medical ethics/ hippocratic oath/ fitness to practice debate rather than a legal one.

Arguably any doctor carrying out the procedures you described shouldn't be allowed to continue practicing, because they are medically unnecessary and cause objective harm.

My understanding of breast surgery is that it carries a significantly higher infection risk than other surgeries, so risk of harm is real even there.

But then this would effectively bring to an end cosmetic surgery.

I guess we have moved away from Hippocratic oath to bodily autonomy with informed decision making, and this is where it gets us.

Bodily autonomy is a cornerstone of feminism. We can't then turn around and start policing male bodies. If we want our own autonomy, we must have a courtesy to not star becoming the oppressors.

I can’t see a mechanism being possible, including for those who have Turkish teeth, weight loss surgery, Brazilian butt lifts etc.
All of those can lead to lifelong medical issues that are picked up by the NHS.

And the cross sex hormones, young girls on steroids, surgery etc, all carry lifelong additional health needs that the tax payer ends up funding.

I was thinking that for the UK it should be a specialist add-on insurance product. Mandatory to purchase as part of the fees for the original procedure if the private surgery happens in the UK. Mandatory to purchase on returning to the UK if the procedure takes place abroad (with significantly higher premiums if the procedure takes place somewhere where the reason why its cheaper is because it's done so badly that complications are more likely). Automatic fine of 5x the premium cost if you evade buying it. Premium set to be sufficient to cover the overall cost of treatment for consequential effects from complications, side effects, sepsis etc across all premium holders (hopefully many of whom would be OK). Payout is to the NHS to refund full cost of treatment as and when something goes wrong.

Not specifically aimed at people buying transgender surgical procedures. Same deal for all cosmetic body modifications including aesthetic dentistry. NHS treatment imited to restoring body to healthy infection-free functioning, not reconstructing implants or other surgical grafts that have failed.

Agreed. I think plastic surgery men can get to help them to pretend to be women is shocking, and should be illegal. In my book plastic surgeons are rarely doing society any good and should not be allowed to operate the way they do, feeding into the mental health problems of people with more money than sense.

You have yet to provide any evidence for your repeated claims that male people who have transgender identities have the same or lower risk of committing sexual offences as the general female population

If you have something to support your claims statistically please do so. Otherwise, your claims and statements are not based on evidence and are still emotionally reasoned.

Transwomen are men - only men can become transwomen, no woman can become a transwoman.
Human beings can't change sex.
Men who claim they are now women are not, because it's impossible.

They can say they are women till the cows come home, but constantly repeating an impossibility doesn't make it true.

What they look like does not change what they are. I'm too polite to ever ridicule anybody for how they look, but that doesn't mean that I can't note objectively that transpeople who have obviously put a lot of effort into looking like their preferred sex are often instantly recognisable as belonging to the sex they were born with.

the hypervigilance, stress, prejudice and ever-present threat of violence is awful.
I'm glad you brought that up. Keeping transpeople in a constant state of hypervigilance about threats of things that very rarely happen is difficult to justify.

Transpeople are not under constant threat of violence, so why tell them they are? Why hold Trans Days of Remembrance in countries where there has never been a transphobic murder? Why this ramping up of hypervigilance without evidence to back it up?
Why this claim of being marginalised and oppressed, when in fact the tiny number transpeople in society have a disproportionate presence in the media and influence in politics?

Why these constant OTT accusations of hate, toxicity, 'literal violence' against even the most respectfully-expressed GC opinion?

What is the function of all this manufactured hypervigilance, and who is most affected by it, I wonder.
I'm sure many? most? transpeople are sussed enough to know that they are not under a raised threat of violence, they are far from being marginalised, they are very present in the media, and their human rights are protected by equality legislation.

But there must be others who have a feeling of fear and desperation because of this atmosphere of ramped-up hypervigilance - could this be why some trans activists turn to aggression and even violence?
If you're [one is] being told that you are threatened with 'literal genocide' just because people don't believe that humans can change sex, I suppose that could make you think you are justified in smashing windows or punching TERFs or threatening them with rape or gruesome deaths.

but there would need to be some kind of mechanism so that the NHS doesn't pick up the bill for any lifelong health problems or followup treatments needed due to complications from such self-funded surgery (but I think that shoukd be true for all voluntary cosmetic procedures

I would be interested if anyone knows of such a possible mechanism. I imagine none of us want the NHS to be turning away people with sepsis, say, just because they had the op done privately, but the NHS is on its knees and it seems that extreme body modification is on the rise.

Ridiculous idea. Absolutely not. People have bodily autonomy and can do what they like if they have mental capacity to give informed consent and it harms no one else.

State funding and general private health insurance should only fund it in exceptionally rare circumstances (it would apply to barely 1% of trans identified males) where Psychologists determine that all other pathways have failed and it's the only way to help the man accept himself and live his life (while demonstrating that he fully understands that no surgical procedure or hormone treatment actually makes him a woman) - this used to be the bar for surgical treatment for transsexuals back in the 80s/90s. Such a pathway must explicitly be inaccessible to AGPs but they should still be at liberty to fully self-fund the procedure - but there would need to be some kind of mechanism so that the NHS doesn't pick up the bill for any lifelong health problems or followup treatments needed due to complications from such self-funded surgery (but I think that shoukd be true for all voluntary cosmetic procedures)

No. Male boobs are not female boobs.

Could you please detail how male 'breast tissue' becomes the interactive system that is behind the breast and endocrine system of a female person?

Because I have asked this on numerous thread and no one can link up the evidence that this is possible.

Male breasts can be developed to a point and can secrete a substance that has yet to be thoroughly tested as being safe for infants, including being safe for an infants long term development. Even Madeline Deutsch, Professor of Clinical Family & Community Medicine and male person with a transgender identity chose not to do this when he had the chance because those secretions have not been tested properly.

I wouldn't be so proud of the fact that my daughter is a drug abuser using testosterone to alter her appearance.

Some transwomen retain their penis because they are still waiting for lower surgery, can't access it, or don't want to have it because it's a major surgery with risks involved. This doesn't automatically make them perverts or fetishists.

Some men choose to retain their penis because they are perverts &/or fetishists.

A man with breasts is more likely to get attacked himself than attack a woman, so yabu and seem like you're looking for something to get riled up about

Can you provide a link to evidence of this please? It's not in line with the fact that there are more transgender men who commit murder than there are transgender men who get murdered.

A man with breasts is more likely to get attacked himself than attack a woman, so yabu and seem like you're looking for something to get riled up about

For all those confused as to whether embryos are all ‘female’ or not, here is a quick video explaining why this is very much misinformation.

https://theparadoxinstitute.org/videos/do-we-all-begin-female

That misinformation has been spread by people who seem to think it can destabilise the sex categorisation of humans.

There is a huge difference between human embryos being undifferentiated for a short period of time and them being ‘female’. Humans embryos are either male or female from conception.

Male embryos are not ‘female’ just because they have not yet started to differentiate.

The prisoner statistics show that as a group, the sub group of male people with a transgender identity do not commit sex offences at a rate that is the same or lower than female people. Therefore they do not move from the general male population category.

As to the claim about there only being the “same few (despicable) faces wouldn't need to be recycled”, well Reduxx adds new entries frequently. So that is also a false claim.

https://reduxx.info

None of that is accurate.

It's time you dropped your rather idealised view of transwomen and faced up to what some of them are actually doing and saying.

Like any other group, they are a collection of differing individuals, and some are very unpleasant people. As with men, we can't tell which the unpleasant ones are until they kick off, and when they do kick off, most of them are just as capable of doing damage to a woman as any other male. So they need to stay out, just as men need to stay out.

If transwomen really understood being a women, they would understand that and respect it. Some do. Some don't.

Thanks for coming back with the facts.
It's easy to doubt your own understanding sometimes.... I'd always understood we are all female as early embryos but someone just saying on here that's been debunked was having me doubt myself. An interesting foray into how insidious untruths on the internet can be.

But if men will attack women in single sex spaces, doesn’t that men TIM are also in danger in those spaces? So if all these men are attacking women in female soaces, surely TIM will be safer in the men’s, as all these men are violent men will be in the ladies?

So are you saying the only reason men attack women is because men have higher testosterone? Sireted. We put all men on hormone blockers, ban testosterone for TIF and we’ve sorted VAWG! Youre a genius!

Trans women are women, and aren't doing any such thing. They're just existing, as they always have. Using locked cubicles along public spaces, because Tthey're trying on clothes etc.

While cis male sex offenders go where they want, as they always have & will, looking to attack women.

Trans men are men too - trans men. Even if some don't identify as blokes :)

Your son is honest. I wish the transwomen trying to force their way inappropriately into women's spaces were as honest about being transwomen , not women. There is a difference and sometimes it matters.

No. To say you want to ban men from getting breast implants gives credence to the accusation that gender critical advocates don't want to protect women, they just want to legislate transpeople out of existence.

I am gender critical because I want to protect women not because I hate transpeople and want to stop them from existing. The transphobic element in the GC movement (and yes some GC people certainly are transphobic) makes me uncomfortable