Should breast implants for males be made illegal?

Would you refer to someone like Isla Bryson or Katie Dolatowski as she?

But you absolutely can't respect women's trauma and safety if you are going to pretend men are women and let these men into women's single sex spaces.

Don't you understand that?

And assuming tog do, why have you decided to prioritise men over women here? Do you simply think men are more important?

Gender critical PEOPLE. not. The GCs.

ypur be kind means the law means jack shit What other laws is it ok to break? My view is that allowing men into women’s single sex spaces is a slippery slope and removes protections for women like me. I wouldn’t be able to have a single sex counselling session

I’m sorry you feel your trauma is worth less. It really isn’t. I believe we can respect all people’s trauma and safety.

what term other than GC do you think I should use? People refer to themselves as GCs so just trying to understand why this was problematic and how else it should be termed

Again, why the need to be condescending? I have seen how it has developed and stand by my point.

each to their own. I prefer to always prioritise the dignity of the person I am speaking to regardless of my beliefs. There are many things people believe that I don’t - yet I respect their beliefs would prefer to respect them as an individual. That doesn’t change my beliefs. To me that’s how we can be respectful and live kindly alingside each other

So you just didn't understand how the discussion had developed. Ah well.

Let’s keep it polite - no need to be condescending, I have read the full thread.

It shows respect to a GC person not to demand that they use wrong-sex pronouns.

That is because you have jumped over to this thread without reading it all. The discussion has developed from the title.

The law disagrees.

why is my trauma worth less

ok I apologise for the shorthand - I used GC as I believed that’s how gender critical people refer to themselves. How would you prefer me to refer to people who hold those beliefs?

No one is worth less. I don’t believe it is one set of rights v another’s. I don’t see being trans as a voluntary action. I see trans women as women who are they really are. They also experienced significant harm and also deserve protection.

You called Gender critical people “GCs”

I have extreme trauma around men in women’s single sex spaces. I can’t describe it here as mnhq find it to be too upsetting for others to read.

why aren’t men expected to obey the law? Why am I worth less than a man who is undertaking a voluntary action?

I believe we should always foreground an individuals safety and dignity. Using someone’s pronouns doesn’t harm us. It shows basic respect regardless of your wider views.

How am I dehumanising? People disagreeing - if done in a respectful way - isn’t dehumanising.

I too am a survivor. I am truly sorry for your experiences - no person should ever experience that. I stand as we all do for tackling violence against women - I just have different views on how we do that and believe we can and should be trans inclusive in how we do that.

Why do you prioritise someone else's subjective belief over my own need to speak accurately? Why is it that respect has to be shown to a subjective and philosophical belief that doesn't reflect material reality?

Where is the respect shown for me to be able to communicate with accuracy using the established conventions of the English language?

Plus, what other group's philosophical belief do you, personally, act as if you believe in your language when that belief is not based in material reality?

That’s a straw man argument that has no relation to the issue being discussed.

And yet you dehumanise “GCs”

i refuse to call a man she. My autistic brain plus my trauma means I can’t do it. Pronouns are the thin end of the wedge.

We are very aware that people with DSDs exist.

No people have been born where a medical specialist cannot investigate and understand which gamete type that person's body has been formed to produce (regardless of what the production status is in that body).

Your focus on genitals is actually not as relevant as whether the body is formed to produce large or small gametes.

surely, whatever our beliefs, we can separate out our beliefs on an issue with how we treat an individual. I don’t understand why GCs can’t respect an individual persons pronouns whilst also holding GC beliefs. I am trans inclusive and disagree with GC beliefs but I still treat the individual people who hold those beliefs with respect.

No person is not able to be categorised into a sex category based on their body's formation around either of the two sexual reproductive roles of producing either small gametes or large gametes (regardless of whether those gametes have been produced in the past, are or will be produced).

I think that what is grim is that you think that it is appropriate to dictate what language I use to accurately describe a person.

If you choose to use inaccurate language to describe the sex category of a person, that is your choice. However, you don't get to choose for me. I don't choose to change my language to act as if I support someone's subjective reality and philosophical belief that doesn't reflect material reality and instead choose to use language that is based on sex not someone's belief about their own subjective reality.

Maybe come back to this forum and read a few threads before jumping in next time. I mean that kindly; many of us did that before we posted because we quickly realised how much we had to learn about what was actually going on.

If you @SinuousTendrils dont agree with the law on access to single sec spaces, you are making me and people like me collateral damage

I can’t even describe what it does to me as mnhq deem it all too upsetting for others to read and delete it.

I don't think anyone should be allowed breast implants on the NHS unless it's post cancer reconstruction.

Reducing breast size is a health issue and the NHS should cover it.

I don't think anyone needs bigger breasts. If you want them you can pay for it (and not then expect the NHS to pick up the pieces if it goes wrong).

Don't care if the person concerned is male or female.