Should breast implants for males be made illegal?

Why do they care so little for the feelings of women?

Well exactly.

If trans identifying men are vulnerable (I'm not saying they aren't), why can't that vulnerability be handled in specific provision of their own?

Why would there be any need to impact women's spaces at all?

If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

If you believe it is about basic human respect, rather that female socialisation, how do you explain that men don't show basic human respect to women by respecting our spaces?

Why don't men - and specifically here, trans identifying men who claim to be so in tune with what it's like to be a woman that they are women - think to themselves

'This is something that the majority of women feel very strongly about - they want toilets, changing rooms, etc., to be for biological females only.
There must be some good reason that we don't get, but let's do the decent thing anyway, let's #bekind, let's show basic human respect for others, and stay out.

Where is their instinctive, because non-socialised, basic human respect for women?

Is placing transwomen in womens prisons compatible with women's safety?

Bearing in mind that some of those transwomen will be rapists

I just genuinely want to debate it with someone who isn’t gender critical and try to understand why a fourth space isn’t a decent solution.

hey ho.

yes. But you cannot force someone to engage. There will always be those who will declare that they are kind and thoughtful, while undermining others and denying it and feeling that they have greater wisdom and knowledge while not sharing that wisdom and knowledge because they need a specially curated environment to engage. One that will not point out the immediate flaws in their beliefs.

Its not the first time I've seen it, but it always shocks me to see how the 'be kind' brigade react to your story.

Its goady. And certainly isn’t fair given what I disclosed. But hey ho.

Wishing people 'peace' while cheerfully wanting to sign their legal rights away is not very nice behaviour, don't you think?

No.

I'm asking you to explain how you can reconcile women's need for single sex spaces and a certain cohort of men's desire to be in those spaces.

You said you think this can be done, so isn't it perfectly reasonable of us to ask how?

And I’ve told you. I’ll never have peace again.

goading isn’t allowed here. Just fyi.

See… this isn’t a space for open and meaningful discussion… you’re trying to goad, provoke, demean, make assumptions about my beliefs.

bye! Wishing you peace :)

If it's so straightforward, why not just say it, right?

We've seen it so many times before.

Honestly, I don't think Kate's given it any proper thought at all. She wants to be seen as 'nice' and feel good about herself. She has responded to pressure from men to prioritise their demands over women's needs. She refuses to even engage with the idea that this is harmful to women - perhaps she genuinely doesn't realise the implications of her position. She hides behind platitudes to avoid having to do so.

It never ceases to amaze me how often we ask how this peaceful coexistence may work so we can discuss it - and how often "reply comes there none" for absolutely batshit "reasons"

Keating I think this was a great example of 'I may or may not agree with you on how to protect female people, but I don't like the accurate way you say things and I don't like being asked indepth questions that I am not comfortable with so I will not answer. '

Same old, same old.

How? We are open to talking about that here. God knows we try.

I’ll never have peace again. That platitude is so offensive

It is interesting that Kate won't discuss because they can't change our minds.

I don't want to change minds: i want a way forwards that doesn't throw women under the bus

Wishing you peace

Of attempted murder? I am so sorry.

As I said to you earlier. I am also a survivor

I hope with all my heart you never find yourself in my position

all the best.

I’m very happy to discuss in spaces where Meaningful and open discussion is possible but that isn’t here. Wishing you all peace and happiness