Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ed Davey says the EHRC code has failed in its objective and calls for post legislative scrutiny of the GRA & EA. Presumably to legally allow blokes in the ladies.

163 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 30/05/2026 18:22

https://x.com/LibDems/status/2060771889295900821/photo/1

Ed Davey says the EHRC code has failed in its objective and calls for post legislative scrutiny of the GRA & EA. Presumably to legally allow blokes in the ladies.
Ed Davey says the EHRC code has failed in its objective and calls for post legislative scrutiny of the GRA & EA. Presumably to legally allow blokes in the ladies.
Ed Davey says the EHRC code has failed in its objective and calls for post legislative scrutiny of the GRA & EA. Presumably to legally allow blokes in the ladies.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 03/06/2026 13:58

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 03/06/2026 10:21

Does she realise that it won't change the law, and that with or without a guidance companies and organisations are still legally obliged to follow the law. If they have to take legal advice then it's more money for them, which if they're sensible they'll think it's just not worth the price.
I can't see how this move is in any way good for the 'trans' community because companies/organisation are simply going to put things back the way they were and instruct their staff to use the appropriate facilities for their biological sex, which is good for us, (and right and proper).

They're not going to bother providing a third choice, not with all this uncertainty caused by 'allies' like Nutty Nadia, which is bad for the 'trans' community, with friends like her they don't need enemy's.

fromorbit · 03/06/2026 09:14

TheNoWord · 03/06/2026 08:11

Not an expert on parliamentary procedure by any means but I didn’t think the motion being discussed was a Fatal Prayer Motion as the wording does not match the example given here:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/business/edms/

"A 'prayer' is a particular type of EDM that is used, by convention, when MPs wish to object formally to a statutory instrument. If a motion 'praying' that an instrument 'be annulled' is tabled within 40 days of it being laid before Parliament, a debate may be arranged in a Delegated Legislation Committee or, more rarely, in the Chamber."

When you do a search of EDMs here , it does not show up if you tick the ’show prayers only’ option.

This one, laid yesterday, is an example of a prayer motion with the correct wording.

Good point. Yet the way Whittome is talking about it seems they and others think they have used a fatal prayer motion.

Alongside colleagues, I have tabled a motion to disapprove the Equality Act 2010: Draft Code of Practice for Services, public functions and associations. We cannot support it, and we have a responsibility to our trans constituents to resist it. This motion is currently the only available mechanism through which Parliament can reject the EHRC’s Code of Practice; if it is debated and passed within the 40-day scrutiny window, it would prevent the Code from being issued by the EHRC and coming into force.

https://x.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/2061762711189414024

They definitely think this can stop the code.

Maybe she screwed up because she could not be bothered to use correct wording.

Given her lack of legal knowledge it would make sense

Nadia Whittome MP (@NadiaWhittomeMP) on X

Alongside colleagues, I have tabled a motion to disapprove the Equality Act 2010: Draft Code of Practice for Services, public functions and associations. We cannot support it, and we have a responsibility to our trans constituents to resist it. This m...

https://x.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/2061762711189414024

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2026 08:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/05/2026 20:20

Do fuck off Ed, there’s a love.

Actually I think scrutiny of the GRA and Equality Act would be brilliant.

Old Ed might then provide some competition for that TERF of the year award and Jolyon might not be quite the runaway fav.

Shortshriftandlethal · 03/06/2026 08:37

fromorbit · 03/06/2026 01:24

Just to explain what is going on again as there seems to be some confusion . This is no ordinary Early Day Motion.

It is effectively what is called a Fatal Prayer motion which is the only way for Parliament to potentially stop alterations to statutory instruments being enacted. I.E it is a way they can stop the EHCR code from being accepted. Remember achieving this will not change the law which says women exist and have single sex spaces. It just means there would be no guidance to explain the law.

However the issue is that getting the motion from here to a debate and vote relies on either the government deciding to allow it or the opposition pushing for it. Thus it is very rare for a Fatal prayer motion to actually be passed the last time in the Commons was in 1979.

Summary here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02569/

So is it pointless. NO it is not. Right now 51 MPs 7.85% of the house have signed. If they get say get a quarter or third of MPs to sign then there will be increasing pressure to allow a debate. The government would not have to of course, but there would be calls for it. A Fatal Prayer motion was debated in Commons committee in 2025 over government plans to alter local government elections. So they can have effect if A LOT of MPs sign and support them.

The reverse is true of course. If they cannot get much more than this it will show the TA cause in this current Parliament is pretty sunk.

So should people write to their MP. Yes if MPs who are wavering get a lot of pro EHCR letters it will incline them to sit this motion out. Keep telling them how excellent the Supreme court judgement is and how important women's safety is. A lot of TAs will be writing to their MPs we need to do the same.

A biased perspective but a summary here:

National article - See the MPs backing bid to have UK equality watchdog's trans guidance scrapped

https://archive.is/Gbd7K

Thanks for that!

That has to be a concern....and maybe why she decided to submit to pressure from her pal Kate Osborne to sign it. I imagine if enough Lib Dems sign it too, and Greens, it could be in for a difficult ride.

Shortshriftandlethal · 03/06/2026 08:34

IwantToRetire · 03/06/2026 02:05

I think things are a bit confused, because this thread was originally about a letter written by Ed Davey.

But then bits got added about the Ministerial Statement made yesterday - see this thread. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5537156-house-of-commons-this-afternoon-ministerial-statement-on-new-code-of-practice?page=1 where you can either watch the statement or read the text https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2026-06-01/debates/CE610C68-7093-454F-B897-AF008EE7E7A0/EqualityAct2010CodeOfPractice

Then in response to this some MPs have said the guidelines this statement is about should be withdrawn:

That the draft Code of Practice for Services, public functions and associations, a copy of which was laid before this House on 21 May, be disapproved.
See https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/65938

Which has its own thread here!
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5537362-house-of-communions-early-day-motion-tabled-draft-code-of-practice-on-services-public-functions-and-associations

So its whether you want to ask to your MP does s/he really think what Seema Malhotra outlined in the House of Commons should be withdrawn.

Sorry late at night but for clarity I hope, the outline relates to this! which we and the EHRC have waited months for!
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5532766-ehrc-code-of-practice-on-services-public-functions-and-associations-has-been-laid-here-is-the-code-itself

Yes, thanks! I've already wriitten to her. Let's see what she has to say. Regardless, I won't be voting Labour so long as she remains in post. All of my local Labour MPs are part of the 'Socialist Campaign Group'.

TheNoWord · 03/06/2026 08:11

fromorbit · 03/06/2026 01:24

Just to explain what is going on again as there seems to be some confusion . This is no ordinary Early Day Motion.

It is effectively what is called a Fatal Prayer motion which is the only way for Parliament to potentially stop alterations to statutory instruments being enacted. I.E it is a way they can stop the EHCR code from being accepted. Remember achieving this will not change the law which says women exist and have single sex spaces. It just means there would be no guidance to explain the law.

However the issue is that getting the motion from here to a debate and vote relies on either the government deciding to allow it or the opposition pushing for it. Thus it is very rare for a Fatal prayer motion to actually be passed the last time in the Commons was in 1979.

Summary here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02569/

So is it pointless. NO it is not. Right now 51 MPs 7.85% of the house have signed. If they get say get a quarter or third of MPs to sign then there will be increasing pressure to allow a debate. The government would not have to of course, but there would be calls for it. A Fatal Prayer motion was debated in Commons committee in 2025 over government plans to alter local government elections. So they can have effect if A LOT of MPs sign and support them.

The reverse is true of course. If they cannot get much more than this it will show the TA cause in this current Parliament is pretty sunk.

So should people write to their MP. Yes if MPs who are wavering get a lot of pro EHCR letters it will incline them to sit this motion out. Keep telling them how excellent the Supreme court judgement is and how important women's safety is. A lot of TAs will be writing to their MPs we need to do the same.

A biased perspective but a summary here:

National article - See the MPs backing bid to have UK equality watchdog's trans guidance scrapped

https://archive.is/Gbd7K

Not an expert on parliamentary procedure by any means but I didn’t think the motion being discussed was a Fatal Prayer Motion as the wording does not match the example given here:

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/business/edms/

"A 'prayer' is a particular type of EDM that is used, by convention, when MPs wish to object formally to a statutory instrument. If a motion 'praying' that an instrument 'be annulled' is tabled within 40 days of it being laid before Parliament, a debate may be arranged in a Delegated Legislation Committee or, more rarely, in the Chamber."

When you do a search of EDMs here , it does not show up if you tick the ’show prayers only’ option.

This one, laid yesterday, is an example of a prayer motion with the correct wording.

fromorbit · 03/06/2026 07:16

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 03/06/2026 06:44

I was wondering that as well, they're very keen on pushing this counterfactual ideology, maybe they're not in Westminster at the moment. They could have all been called back home for a big pow wow now PC are in.

The TA bubble in Wales may finally be beginning to burst.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5537643-welsh-tories-call-for-inquiry-into-welsh-gender-service

Welsh Tories call for inquiry into Welsh Gender Service | Mumsnet

^The Welsh Conservatives have called for a full independent review into the Welsh Gender Service following concerns about the fact that it refers betw...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5537643-welsh-tories-call-for-inquiry-into-welsh-gender-service

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 03/06/2026 06:44

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 02/06/2026 21:31

No Plaid Cymru either. They have 4 MPs and support self-ID and gender-instead-of-sex for services etc

I was wondering that as well, they're very keen on pushing this counterfactual ideology, maybe they're not in Westminster at the moment. They could have all been called back home for a big pow wow now PC are in.

IwantToRetire · 03/06/2026 02:05

Shortshriftandlethal · 02/06/2026 16:31

I see my MP has signed this. Can you explain what she is signing in favour of as I intend to write to her. I met her once at a local farmer's market and spoke to her extensively about my concerns. She was formerly part of the Socialist Campaign Group - as are most of the other Labour signees. She's very pally with Kate Osborne.

I think things are a bit confused, because this thread was originally about a letter written by Ed Davey.

But then bits got added about the Ministerial Statement made yesterday - see this thread. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5537156-house-of-commons-this-afternoon-ministerial-statement-on-new-code-of-practice?page=1 where you can either watch the statement or read the text https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2026-06-01/debates/CE610C68-7093-454F-B897-AF008EE7E7A0/EqualityAct2010CodeOfPractice

Then in response to this some MPs have said the guidelines this statement is about should be withdrawn:

That the draft Code of Practice for Services, public functions and associations, a copy of which was laid before this House on 21 May, be disapproved.
See https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/65938

Which has its own thread here!
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5537362-house-of-communions-early-day-motion-tabled-draft-code-of-practice-on-services-public-functions-and-associations

So its whether you want to ask to your MP does s/he really think what Seema Malhotra outlined in the House of Commons should be withdrawn.

Sorry late at night but for clarity I hope, the outline relates to this! which we and the EHRC have waited months for!
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5532766-ehrc-code-of-practice-on-services-public-functions-and-associations-has-been-laid-here-is-the-code-itself

fromorbit · 03/06/2026 01:24

Shortshriftandlethal · 02/06/2026 16:31

I see my MP has signed this. Can you explain what she is signing in favour of as I intend to write to her. I met her once at a local farmer's market and spoke to her extensively about my concerns. She was formerly part of the Socialist Campaign Group - as are most of the other Labour signees. She's very pally with Kate Osborne.

Just to explain what is going on again as there seems to be some confusion . This is no ordinary Early Day Motion.

It is effectively what is called a Fatal Prayer motion which is the only way for Parliament to potentially stop alterations to statutory instruments being enacted. I.E it is a way they can stop the EHCR code from being accepted. Remember achieving this will not change the law which says women exist and have single sex spaces. It just means there would be no guidance to explain the law.

However the issue is that getting the motion from here to a debate and vote relies on either the government deciding to allow it or the opposition pushing for it. Thus it is very rare for a Fatal prayer motion to actually be passed the last time in the Commons was in 1979.

Summary here:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02569/

So is it pointless. NO it is not. Right now 51 MPs 7.85% of the house have signed. If they get say get a quarter or third of MPs to sign then there will be increasing pressure to allow a debate. The government would not have to of course, but there would be calls for it. A Fatal Prayer motion was debated in Commons committee in 2025 over government plans to alter local government elections. So they can have effect if A LOT of MPs sign and support them.

The reverse is true of course. If they cannot get much more than this it will show the TA cause in this current Parliament is pretty sunk.

So should people write to their MP. Yes if MPs who are wavering get a lot of pro EHCR letters it will incline them to sit this motion out. Keep telling them how excellent the Supreme court judgement is and how important women's safety is. A lot of TAs will be writing to their MPs we need to do the same.

A biased perspective but a summary here:

National article - See the MPs backing bid to have UK equality watchdog's trans guidance scrapped

https://archive.is/Gbd7K

fromorbit · 02/06/2026 23:43

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 02/06/2026 21:31

No Plaid Cymru either. They have 4 MPs and support self-ID and gender-instead-of-sex for services etc

Good point. It will be odd icf they don't sign.

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2026 21:38

BeKindWisely · 02/06/2026 19:44

Sorry for the weird double post!

That's all right, I'm basking in the double praise for my post😁
I've been 'brewing' that argument for a long time - that disabled people only get 'reasonable adjustments' but transpeople get everything they want, everywhere, at any cost, no matter how disruptive, and no matter how unfavourable the consequences are for other people.

I instinctively bristle at the suggestion that 'the way forward is third [fourth] spaces', I've always thought 'No, the way forward is people using the toilets designated for their sex!'

I've always thought it unfair that the feasibility and affordability of providing specific spaces for transpeople has never been made an issue of.

And then recently I was reading up about disability discrimination, and had a 💡moment - it's OK to limit the adjustments made for people with disabilities on the grounds of reasonableness, but discriminatory to put any limit on adjustments for transgender people.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt · 02/06/2026 21:31

fromorbit · 02/06/2026 20:52

51 signed 2 left

No Sir ED Davey signature ! Most of the Lib Dems have not signed. The two who took their signatures away are both Lib Dems Tim Farron and Andrew George. Which is very interesting indeed. Give it a few days but the speculation we were making on this thread that Davey's letter was some kind of ploy and the Lib Dems are split on this is confirmed.

Numbers signed by party.

Labour 23 /402
Lib Dem 22 /72
Green 2 /5
SNP 2 /58
Your party 1 / 1 [Only Zarah is standing as YP in Parliament]
Independent 1 / 13

Most of the Labour MPs as others have said are members of the far left socialist campaign group who are serial rebels.

The lack of SNP signatures is telling. One bitten twice shy.

Where are other Green MPs? Denyer is off on mental health reasons.

Also no Jeremy Corbyn.

No Plaid Cymru either. They have 4 MPs and support self-ID and gender-instead-of-sex for services etc

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2026 21:23

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 02/06/2026 16:21

Unfeminine GNC women care about other women

This is the key difference between us and trans rights wants supporters. We would rather be challenged every time we use the loo than have a woman or girl be hurt because we care about women and girls. Trans-identifying men care only about themselves.

That's a really good point, selffellatingouroborosofhate.

And thank you for reminding me about womendeserveequalhumanrights' wonderful post from a few days ago, I meant to respond at the time by saying how impressed I was not only by the points made, but how passionately they were expressed.
Sometimes great posts get swallowed up by the fast pace of responses!

I too have been challenged, I too have resolved it in a matter of moments with a few friendly words and a smile, and I too gladly put up with that if it helps keep men out of women's spaces.

RoyalCorgi · 02/06/2026 21:16

I literally cannot stand the stupidity any more. What is wrong with these people? How is it that, in one of the most educated, literate populations to exist in the history of humanity, we have managed to elect a bunch of utter morons who can't be trusted to put their clothes on the right way round to represent us?

ItsCoolForCats · 02/06/2026 21:14

fromorbit · 02/06/2026 20:52

51 signed 2 left

No Sir ED Davey signature ! Most of the Lib Dems have not signed. The two who took their signatures away are both Lib Dems Tim Farron and Andrew George. Which is very interesting indeed. Give it a few days but the speculation we were making on this thread that Davey's letter was some kind of ploy and the Lib Dems are split on this is confirmed.

Numbers signed by party.

Labour 23 /402
Lib Dem 22 /72
Green 2 /5
SNP 2 /58
Your party 1 / 1 [Only Zarah is standing as YP in Parliament]
Independent 1 / 13

Most of the Labour MPs as others have said are members of the far left socialist campaign group who are serial rebels.

The lack of SNP signatures is telling. One bitten twice shy.

Where are other Green MPs? Denyer is off on mental health reasons.

Also no Jeremy Corbyn.

I'm surprised my Labour MP hasn't signed it, but there is still time. It does seem a bit pointless though.

fromorbit · 02/06/2026 20:52

mypronounsaremine · 02/06/2026 16:54

...and two who had signed have now withdrawn. It's all happening today.

edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/65938#tab-withdrawn

51 signed 2 left

No Sir ED Davey signature ! Most of the Lib Dems have not signed. The two who took their signatures away are both Lib Dems Tim Farron and Andrew George. Which is very interesting indeed. Give it a few days but the speculation we were making on this thread that Davey's letter was some kind of ploy and the Lib Dems are split on this is confirmed.

Numbers signed by party.

Labour 23 /402
Lib Dem 22 /72
Green 2 /5
SNP 2 /58
Your party 1 / 1 [Only Zarah is standing as YP in Parliament]
Independent 1 / 13

Most of the Labour MPs as others have said are members of the far left socialist campaign group who are serial rebels.

The lack of SNP signatures is telling. One bitten twice shy.

Where are other Green MPs? Denyer is off on mental health reasons.

Also no Jeremy Corbyn.

MyAutumnCrow · 02/06/2026 20:19

Cars4Gov · 02/06/2026 20:02

51 now...

Doesn’t matter. EDMs are pointless. Except that now we now who wants to break the law rather than legislate for it. The Labour MPs are especially pathetic.

And 51 is fewer than 1% of MPs.

Cars4Gov · 02/06/2026 20:02

51 now...

Shortshriftandlethal · 02/06/2026 19:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

She used to belong to the 'Socialist Campaign Group', which numbers about 28 Labour MPs, and they all seem to have signed it. Weird how old, traditional Socialists like John Mcdonnell have gone along with this. I don't get it.

BeKindWisely · 02/06/2026 19:44

Sorry for the weird double post!

BeKindWisely · 02/06/2026 19:34

Not read to the end of the thread, so someone lawerly may have responded to this.
Just wanted to say what an interesting and excellent point this is- and I hope it is discussed further!
(Also, just to unashamedly save it for my personal little catalogue of excellent FWR points made)

BeKindWisely · 02/06/2026 19:33

MarieDeGournay · 02/06/2026 11:16

It is important to recognise that although it cannot cover every scenario, the EHRC has provided key explanations and worked examples, also based on wide consultation, that every organisation can take and apply in its own context with common sense. If a service provider is not sure, it can and should take legal advice.

It's interesting to contrast the obligations in the context of disability discrimination, and those based on transgender discrimination.

In the context of disability, only 'reasonable' adjustments are required. The meaning of 'reasonable' includes cost, effect on other people, resources available, practicality, etc.

In other words, it is accepted that there will be circumstances where that it neither practical nor affordable to make certain adjustments for, for instance, a wheelchair user, and therefore is not 'reasonable' and not required.
Other adjustments must be made, but the law accepts that there are limits.

Contrast that with what seems to have become the norm to avoid discrimination against transpeople: transpeople 'must not be left without provision', and that is interpreted as either access to whatever toilet/changing room they choose, the provision of extra 'fourth spaces' or, as seems to be happening a lot, complete removal of single-sex provision and replacing it with all-mixed-sex individual lockable 'universal' toilets.

No weighing up of the cost, the disruption, available resources, the negative effects on other users, the practicality - in other words, the reasonableness of the adjustments to existing toilet provision, which is perfectly adequate for the huge majority of the population.

I don't understand why adjustments which are actually physically needed by people with disabilities may be subjected to a 'reasonableness' test, whereas adjustments which are not needed but simply 'preferred' by transpeople have to be provided, with no reasonableness test.

In reality no transperson is 'left with no provision', as long as there is a men's, women's, and accessible toilet. The provision is there, they are not physically unable to use it, but they choose not to use it.

And on that basis, existing toilet provision can be removed and replaced by an inferior, unsafe, inadequate, unpopular alternative in order to cater for a tiny percentage of the population, without any consideration of whether or not these adjustments are 'reasonable'.

IANAL, and I can't understand - why is there a 'reasonableness' test for adjustments on the basis of disability discrimination, but none on the basis of transgender discrimination?

Not read to the end of the thread, so someone lawerly may have responded to this.
Just wanted to say what an interesting and excellent point this is- and I hope it is discussed further!
(Also, just to unashamedly save it for my personal little catalogue of excellent FWR points made)

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/06/2026 17:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.