Good Law Project to report Sex Matters over 'deviant' remark

The problem is that 'illegal' is quite a specific word.

It isn't a crime to walk into an opposite sex toilet, and you aren't going to face any kind of prosecution unless you refuse to leave and/or are found different of another crime.

lol.

Apart from the fact that the word was used to describe behaviour, not people, any and every man who enters women's space unlawfully, is absolutely representative of all men who do it.

Don't want your behaviour to be called deviant? Don't do it.

I knew, with a high degree of confidence, that statistically the poster wouldn’t answer. Safety always gets in their way.

One of the most recent ruses - to disguise/obscure the fact that everyone knows that what we are talking about is men; about men who adopt trans identities and then try to impinge upon female boundaries and dignity - by talking more generally about 'trans people' ( as if trans people are not either male or female like everyone else). As if trans identified people do not have a sex. It is purely a diversionary tactic used to obscure the crux of the issue.

The whole business relies on blnd acceptance of 'the faith' and an unwillingness, or an inability, to think critically. People have been encouraged to associate critical thinking only with ideologically based criticism of 'oppressive' systems, or the 'oppressive' establishment.

Stubbornly Wrongheaded: Deliberately choosing to do something that goes against reason, logic, or accepted norms.
Contrarian Pleasure: Finding an odd, often dark satisfaction in doing something disagreeable or unexpected (e.g., taking "perverse pleasure" in an argument).
Perverted or Immoral: Occasionally used to describe something deviating from what is considered natural or morally correct

It is certainly transgressive for a man to enter a designated women only space - certainly when he knows he should not be in there. Why is he doing it? What are his motives? These motives must by their nature be deviant or perverse in some way. People ( men) who transgress boundaries knowing full well that some other people ( women) will be discomforted or feel compromised by that transgressive act. What word might you might you use to describe that type of action or behaviour?

I nearly choked on my coffee! Quote of the day. Thank you.

I also think that Helen Joyce does specifically mean deviant. She is arguing that the lack of respect for boundaries is a violation. It might sound extreme, but I think I have heard her use the word before in an intentional way.

Some people might not like it, but it's not unusual for feminists to talk in these terms when referring to men.

Absolutely fascinating that sex matters said MEN indulging in deviant behavior and GLP immediately thought they were referring to transwomen. I thought transwomen were literally women.

IMO Sex Matters actually go out of their way in the material they publish on their website to refer to trans-identified people with respect and to point out that they have needs and rights. They are at pains to make it clear that any issues that are causing friction are because trans-identified men are men, not because they are trans. They want the onus to be on employers and service providers to make it absolutely clear that their single-sex services are actually single-sex and to ensure that they signpost gender neutral services for anyone uncomfortable with using the service for their sex.

"describing women who are trans using women's spaces as 'deviants'"

See, that doesn't even make sense due to the fact that JM can't say "men"
It sounds like he's saying "women who identify as trans" i.e. actual women
He's tied himself in knots

(irrespective of the fact SM didn't even say that in the first place)

Am pretty sure SM meant behaviour that deviates from the law, as in behaviour that breaches the law, that the person should, or ought to know about.

This is exactly what SM have written "deviant behaviour". The GLP are complaining about something that SM have not said "describing women who are trans using women's spaces as 'deviants'". However if the cap fits...

Exactly. The use of 'deviant behaviour' in the context of men entering women's spaces is very different from Maugham's framing of SM calling people 'deviants'. Maugham seems to be thinking in terms of saints (who do no wrong), and sinners (who do no right) aka 'deviants', whereas SM called out specific behaviour without putting those who perform it into those black and white categories. I think a court, well versed in the precise use of language, is likely to spot that linguistic sleight of hand a mile off.

People are not wholly good or wholly bad. To call someone a criminal is not the same as saying that someone has committed a criminal offence (such as exceeding a speed limit). Most of us who have exceeded a speed limit would be offended at being classed as a criminal. It is Maugham who has categorised men who enter women's spaces as 'deviants' as if the entering of a women's space defines their characters in their entirety.

[I do not suggest that all cases of speeding are equivalent to all cases of men entering women's spaces. Both of these can vary in seriousness, so a man joining the WI is not the same a man swanning into a female changing room, and doing 71 on the M5 is not the same as doing 48 past the entrance of a primary school.]

Women seeing men in women's spaces or who say they want to go into women's spaces is going to make 99% of women think those men are creeps.

No matter the language used to describe it.

Edited to add; unless man is a cleaner or plumber and has a legitimate reason for being there - but women can then decide whether or not to enter as there's always a clear sign stating a male may be present in that situation.

I think it is more subtle than that. The act of a man entering a women's toilet in a service may or may not be illegal depending on a variety of factors. Deviant is a better word.
IANAL

One could also reasonably say that a MAN found to be in a female facility without good reason.

is perverting common law principles

Exactly what I was thinking! I don’t know why he’s getting his kimono in a twist over this reference to deviant men - I mean, we all know TWAW, surely?

And presumably won't help the GLP either.

He’s absolutely invested in that, for GLP but I think he’s pretty unhinged in general.

It is the Bike Meme in real time

We say men 'can use the loophole to behave badly'
TRAs go mad saying 'that's transphobic'
We say 'we never mentioned trans people at all, that was your link not ours'

I do love it when TRAs throw themselves into a muddy hole and blame feminists for 'hatred'.