HMRC gives trans people access to VIP hotline

How do you know they get special treatment and have their call answered faster than others? You don’t know that at all.

It’s likely more about staff training. It’s not like tax records for other individuals are completely public. But there are privacy implications, for instance if you disclose someone’s trans status to their employer (a storyline on Coronation Street in the 1990s). The employer might genuinely not know about the employees trans status despite you saying it’s always obvious.

As for car number plates, obviously if someone knows you and what car you drive, they know your number plate (if they look). Number plates are meant to be public, that’s the point of them.

If this is the same as the celebrity and employee processing centre, it's for privacy (DH used to work for HMRC). Other employees are forbidden from looking up people's records but if these taxpayers were in the regular databases a friend/family/nosy person/colleague could chance upon the records.

I would prefer that my DH ex colleagues not know how much he earns when they are just correctly doing their jobs but find his records, and I'm sure well known people would also prefer this. However unless Jane Smith that used to be John is very high profile I think it's unlikely that Mary Brown who lives on the same street and works for HMRC will think "oh THAT'S what he's called now" when she's checking to see who's filled in their SA correctly and comes across one Jane Smith.

I have no idea if they have a special-special unit for the employees of the special unit to have their records processed.

We’re clearly not going to come to a meeting of minds here

I don’t understand why the fact that someone has legally changed their sex requires special measures to keep it a secret. Mostly because I’m afraid whatever you may think, everyone who meets them will be well aware of their actual sex

your question about why there is a special helpline for politicians is a good one though

Oh, no, I for one don't think anyone should get special treatment. They should all just in a queue to speak to HMRC like the rest of us!

You're just being obtuse now. It's been explained a million times it's not their sex which is secret, it's the fact that they've legally changed it, which they are entitled to privacy about and that privacy can be necessary to protect from discrimination and harassment.

Your car number plate is not a protected characteristic, nor is it special category data.

I don't agree, it's just an article, and I thought it was interesting. The first thing I thought was that other trans identified people were going to complain, and would they end up in court, but that's just how I think! Then I thought of all the others, too - nobody likes HMRC.

I’m afraid I still don’t understand why the state needs to put itself out to help people keep their sex a secret. I agree that the state has no business making it easy for others to find out. But putting active special measures in place?

it’s very much like car number plates in my opinion. Anyone who knows me can look at my car and know my number plate. I don’t want the state to make it easy for people who don’t know me to find out my number plate, but no super special measures are required

likewise anyone who knows me can tell what sex I am. I don’t particularly want the state to make that information universally available but no special measures to keep it secret are necessary

It's amazing people will twist themselves in knots ignoring the laws and the facts and the explanations as to why this is done for some trans people, but no one's questioning why on earth politicians need their own special phone line and can't just wait on hold like the rest of us.

No, this isn't true - a marriage is a marriage, nothing about the record officially states any involved individual's sexuality.

Marriages are also notoriously non-compulsory so if someone really wanted to avoid having a marriage certificate they can choose to just not get married. Whereas having a tax record is compulsory.

It's not their sex, it's the fact that they have (legally) changed their sex. As I've explained about 8 times now, HMRC accounts have to retain the information that the sex marker has changed to calculate the pension correctly, which effectively meaning they are holding information that the customer is transgender - this is what is protected data.

My god. The wilful ignorance on display. Because they are trans and have legally changed their sex (not biologically, legally). So the HMRC records would out them and they might need staff with slightly more training to deal with these calls. It’s not that hard to understand. Just as someone might not want to be outed as gay or disabled, some trans people don’t want to be outed as trans.

I seriously promise that this doesn’t take away staff from dealing with everyone else’s tax issues. There aren’t hundreds of trans people swamping the special helpline daily.

according to google While the word "sex" or "gender" does not appear, the law still requires marriages to be registered as either opposite-sex or same-sex.

so you kinda can tell someone’s sexuality by getting information about their marriage I think

A marriage certificate does not record information about someone's sexuality, sex or gender.

But what is the confidential data? Their sex? Why is it confidential?

I get that. But if you accept the principle that the way to give people privacy and protect them from harassment is for the state to do its best to help them keep things about themselves secret (even if they’re super obvious to everyone who meets them), then can gay people not get their marriage records made top secret?

No, because HMRC does not collect information about sexuality so you're not at risk of being outed in conversation with a member of staff. Keep up.

Well if you tell me why speaking to a gay person would involve sensitive or particularly confidential data (which it does for a trans person) then maybe we can talk about it.

Indeed

but no special secret HMRC helpline for gay people, no?

Well, yes. Sexuality is also special category data under GDPR law. It's irrelevant here though since - obviously - HMRC does not collect information about people's sexuality.

Yes? You’re under no obligation to disclose that you are gay at work or anything like that. Are you unaware of privacy rights?

The Supreme Court ruling only applied to interpretation of the Equality Act. It does not undo the fact that trans people with a GRC have legally changed their sex in all other aspects, including pension entitlement.

it's not actually anyone else's business how trans people interact with HMRC, nor does it affect anyone else.

Unless its funded by pride, it is our business.

I can see that some people will require very specialist help, and it makes sense to have experts answering their calls. I suspect its the older people who're close to retirement who have had obvious male and female tax codes in the past.

Hmm

gay people have a right to privacy and to protection from harassment. Homophobic abuse is definitely a thing. Are you saying that the answer is for the state to help gay people keep their sexual orientation a secret?

A person's trans status isn't relevant, which is why this doesn't apply to every trans person. But if you have a GRC your legal sex has changed for the purposes of your pension entitlements. Most companies if you change your legal sex can just update your sex marker and your record can be dealt with as normal as there is no reason anyone accessing it would be aware the marker has changed. But for HMRC, they can't simply expunge your previous legal sex without messing up your pension, so they have to retain the information that the sex marker has been changed, which is effectively retaining the information that you are transgender. This is special category data under GDPR law and as such these records can only be accessed by certain members of staff to protect the customer's confidentiality.