Sunderland Minster refusing to comply with Supreme Court ruling

They are compliant. They just changed the signs on the doors.

If they are still rooms with cubicles with gaps around doors those are not compliant with building regs for unisex loos. Unisex loos needs to be fully enclosed with handwash facilities in the cubicle. Putting a unisex label on a normal communal room does not comply with the law.

Been to local leisure centre today. We no longer have women's or mens toilets. All unisex now, I thought this is what would happen.

Ding ding ding

Cathedrals are legally separate from the diocese in which they're located. They are funded differently and have different methods of governance and oversight. Then each parish church (or benefice, group of churches or, in this case, Minster) is a separate charity, and has its own governance. So the Diocese of Durham isn't wrong when it says that Sunderland Minster is a separate entity. But I agree that when it comes to the law the statement is weasel words.

I'm also wondering how much tolerance you would find if you were a "literal-minded" "straight-talking" "justice warrior" for the rights of women in general, and lesbians in particular, to spaces of their own.

And presumably if you are uneducated or upper class you can get lost.

That's the problem with "inclusive" lists.

Thank you, it's really interesting to have ideas challenged from within the same faith system as the one that Sunderland Minster operates under.

The list is, as you say, perfectly valid, but doesn't tell the whole story about humanity.

I can't remember whether it was Bruce Springsteen or U2 who said
Here we are Lord, this mess, in Your image.

I notice that lesbians and gays don't get a mention in their list, we're just also rans amongst the 'alphabet wanderers'😒

Every single word of this is true and upholds the universal nature of God's love and Jesus's redemption.

Not a single word of it is incompatible with a church providing facilities on the basis of biological sex, as well as a parallel unisex option for those who don't want to use the facilities that are for their biological sex, in accordance with the law.

In Christ there is no male or female, but it's a utopian fantasy to think that therefore we can pretend that male and female do not exist and do not have different strengths and vulnerabilities that are not within the control of any individual to over-rule - only that in Christ neither is better, and therefore whether you are actually male or female biologically, and whether you present as male or female in your gender expression, has no effect on how loved, included and welcome you are. But the Church surely knows that it is not immune from some members of the church needing protection from others, otherwise it has not yet learned any safeguarding lessons at all.

I noticed when I was hunting down their safeguarding policies that the Diocese states that Durham Cathedral is a separate entity and has their own policies and procedures.
They are saying the same about Sunderland Minster.
It's a bit odd to have the big 'venues' running their own safeguarding, isn't it?

This bit was very unsatisfactory:
encouraging local churches to take a pastoral approach to all the complex and often sensitive issues which have to be considered in the light of the Supreme Court’s April 2025 judgment concerning the legal definition of sex

How about encouraging local churches to take a law-abiding approach - in a sensitive pastoral manner by all means, but ultimately the law is the law.

The Law of Sanctuary hasn't applied for many centuries, so the law is the same law for everybody.

I know this church, sort of. I went when I was having a difficult time and the canon and her team were extremely kind to me. I was saddened to hear about this as I do feel it shows a real lack of understanding and compassion for women and girls. It’s also quite out of step with the community that it serves. This is a city which has sadly just voted in a reform council ffs. The people are generally not woke af guardian readers.

as a city centre church it attracts a lot of students and refugees and it does do a lot for vulnerable people in the city which is why I feel so saddened that it is doubling down on this but I do feel that the canon’s family circumstances are skewing things here.

Well, the DM article is full of incorrect info among the correct information, so I don't think it's going to make anything clearer for anyone who doesn't already under the issues.

The DM said the SC ruling stated that toilets should be segregated by gender, and that the Minster has 40 days before they have to comply with the law. So a bit of a mess really. Let's hope other media get the facts straight.

@SexRealistic "Judges decided access to private areas such as lavatories should be based on gender which is a matter of biological fact and not choice."

Erm. Either they haven't been paying attention or they are using AI to automatically replace the word 'sex' with 'gender' regardless of whether it makes sense

Thanks!

https://archive.ph/Fknig

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15858035/amp/Church-trans-women-female-lavatories-law.html

Would you happen to have an archive link please?

It's made the Daily Mail!

Sunderland Minster is a Grade 2 listed building. Even if they try to just make all their toilets mixed-sex, there will be building regulations to manage as well as health & safety regulations relating to mixed-sex toilets that they will need to comply with. And refurbishing any area of a Grade 2 listed building will be expensive.

The downside is that getting planning for refurbishment can take a long time and a lot of back and forth. So if they don't need to provide single -sex toilets for their staff (I think they do), they could hold up compliance with the law for quite a while.

An acting bish is still the bish at the moment though. Receiving a bish's stipend and therefore the responsibilities that go with that.

They do. Although the clergy also have to obey their bishop. Durham only has an acting bishop at the moment, mind. Their suffragan (assistant) had gone to be Bishop of Ely and they're waiting for their new Diocesan to be installed.

Sunderland Minster has its own board of 16 trustees who bear responsibility.

Exactly what I was going to say! 😀

Very much so. 'We aren't them'!

That reads to me as if the Diocese is taking a big step backwards 'nothing to do with me guv'!