Sunderland Minster refusing to comply with Supreme Court ruling

If the women injecting were in the sort of toilets in my town my kids wouldn't have seen her which I think is a good thing.

The disabled toilets are interesting. If unisex, self-contained toilets are so dangerous it's odd that we accept they are the appropriate provision for some of the most vulnerable members of society.

I'm not convinced that people using drugs or having sex would stop if there were no disabled toilets and as long as no one is being inconvenienced it doesn't bother me. I don't want to watch.

I've been away for a few days, came home yesterday by train. While waiting for my connection I went to the toilet. As I walked in a man walked out. I did think of how much upset it would cause on here and how it was actually a non event.

I've worked in two places where men and women used the same toilet, it was a non issue.

Arf! 😁

LOL... They are Americans, babe! No one is getting through a 30cm gap!!

With a gap of a foot, people could surely slide over into the next cubicle? OK if they were single-sex, I suppose.

America toilet gaps are extreme! 30cm in some States I believe, and gaps along the sides. Shudder. Ours are a respectable max 15cm, like a kitchen kickboard.

I did write a long answer to this, with lots of evidence about why this doesn’t work, but I don’t want to seem that I am having a go at you.

I wouldn’t go into toilets that made me feel nervous. Neither would my husband (some away games pub toilets). Many toilets get closed down due to misuse.

Going back to the toilet you saw the women in, how do you think the design you like would have stopped that behaviour? Is it out of sight out of mind?

Is it just that the toilet you like is in a less druggie area?

Fully private toilets have long been used for sex and drugs, as I have said before. It’s documented in lots of places around the world and in uk government reports about toilet provision. The private aspect is always a problem: ‘Disabled people's toilets are big, private and less likely to be occupied than regular-sized ones. As a result they are open to misuse by the general public. Most notoriously, they are sometimes occupied by drug users or people having sex.’ BBC, 2013.

Skelton shopping mall is Westfield 😁

For me a toilet block shouldn’t be gloomy. It should be designed to be and feel safe. Well lit. Very public. And in this day and age, cctv could absolutely be pointed at the doorway to the block. From a sexual assault pov there’s a huge risk that a woman can be shoved into a fully enclosed loo and locked in and assaulted.

In was in the US last year and noted a lot of loos. A new fancy development in Brooklyn had fully enclosed loos that were disabled and everyone loos. Which was fine. But not well lit (I felt they’d be inappropriate for anyone partially sighted) and round a side door. Despite very public it wasn’t actually very busy around the building (the old sugar factory on the dockside.)

another block beneath an old 1930s building that was used as a cafe and theatre was the old style block of loos for women with the largest gaps beneath I’d ever seen. That actually felt borderline awkward. Very well lit and clean. But renamed “all genders” ffs. 🤦🏻‍♀️

The loos in the new shopping building that looks like a dinosaur skeleton at ground zero were single sex and excellent. Well lit, very public.

(as I was with an architect at all these I really should know the name of them but don’t remember 🤣)

Have you ever walked into one of those old blocks at night and felt nervous? I walked into one at night and was confronted with two women injecting drugs. Sorry I don't like those blocks, don't feel they offer privacy or safety. I guess we won't agree but I'm happy to stick with what we have.

There was one of those self locking, fully contained toilets near a Metro station in Newcastle. One day I had a stomach issue and had to get off the Metro to use it. I didn't get stuck in it, on the contrary the door kept on opening by itself after a couple of minutes. It was actually quite distressing as I was unwell. (Fortunately the lovely Metro staff, on being told of the problem, took me to the staff loos). It has certainly made me feel anxious about going near one again!

Like my post at 10.22 then? This is clad to look beach-like as it’s near the sea.

It’s a fairly common problem to get trapped with automated doors on all sorts of designs eg. train carriage disabled toilets. I could link to lots of examples. There’s some where 2 adults sheepishly get freed after several hours by the fire brigade and you can tell the newspaper editors have fun with those stories!

edit: again not having a go, just saying why it’s often best to keep things simple.

Nothing like that. They are brick built with a conventional wooden door. Much bigger than your example, wheelchair users (like my husband) can use them. I suppose that's disability friendly as accessible to all. They also have a pulldown changing table for babies.

It's in England. We've had them for a few years.

I'm just saying what we have and how much better they are than what they replaced.

This system has been used in this country and in Europe. There’s some funny stories about how they were abandoned in a previous wave of them in the 80s and 90s. The poor lady with everyone looking down at her from the bus 😅
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/gallery/hulls-superloos-truth-behind-nightmarish-8611659

... if you collapse as the door automatically swings open after 15 minutes unless you press a button for more time.

Some sort of electronic locking system? I don't like the sound of that much; what happens if it malfunctions? What country is this in?

My data and evidence proves otherwise. Automated doors are a particular problem.
Honestly don’t want to argue just raising awareness.

Not how I feel. Walking into a gloomy outdoor toilet block at night is quite intimidating. Our new toilets are somewhere public like a pavement or edge of a car park. With door open you can clearly see no one is lurking. You are more likely to be spotted if you collapse as the door automatically swings open after 15 minutes unless you press a button for more time. They are a great improvement, all the local women I know agree and I think there would be a lot of complaints if they tried to change them.

As to smells! I was in a city visiting someone and used the toilet in the old style single sex block. I was separated from the next cubicle by a flimsy divider, gaps top and bottom. The poor woman in the next cubicle was obviously having bowel issues. The sounds and smell were truly revolting. No problems like that with our private, secure unisex toilets.

The actual safest is a cubicle (with door gaps) within a room. It prevents assaults as nothing is completely private. It also means you are more likely to be rescued in time if you had a medical episode. Otherwise people have been left for hours or days. Being trapped is another problem.
The problem with a private room is it’s used for sex and drugs (and the occasional homeless sleeper). The problem with the sink is it is within the 1.5m toilet flume plume. So you are washing and drying your hands in an area that has the contents of the previous occupants flush plume on it. Interesting they don’t smell. It must have good ventilation via a natural source or good mechanical ventilation.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-stuck-inside-locked-public-35746932.amp

That statement reads like they've had an absolute bollocking 😆

Ha. Great point

Personally I think the susceptibility of some religious people to gender ideology is partly about it simply being another faith-based belief system for people who really need belief ; and partly because it appears to them an easy, virtue signalling, way to compensate for any ideas about religion being old fashioned or irrelevant.

A spot of educating herself wouldn't go amiss, I found it quite enlightening some years ago....

If I were Canon MacLaren, I would be at least a little bit worried about my job tonight. An Act of Contrition might be a bit overkill, but a full, public apology to her parishioners and the diocese at large might be in order. Proper safeguarding training and a short course on humility wouldn't hurt.

Thank you!

https://www.facebook.com/share/18FafgJbCU/

Bangin! Well done team. Excellent outcome.