How do you handle gender identity disagreements within a long-standing social group?

I agree with this. People seem to have ridiculously firm views on all types of expertise these days that in the past would have been the province of the doctor treating them or the lawyer advising them. People knew what they didn't know, and perhaps there was too much deference, but they didn't constantly opine on how best to do things, even when we couldn't possibly really know, as no fantastic scientific evidence exists around, say, gendered care or trans. We don't know, we are best guessing, some people best guessed one way, some best guessed another, and slowly but surely some evidence is being built (though that has its problems, ethically, to expose people to treatments that may harm them).

If I were a parent in this situation, I'd be joining talk groups of parents that had been through it, and charities that are set up to support parents, preferably from a range of viewpoints.

I wouldn't want every single person I knew to pile in and tell me their views on trans.

It's like when someone gets cancer, everyone weighs in with their fantastic suggestions (have you thought of running marathons/visualisation/travelling to far distant land to get surgery irrelevant for you/reading about treatments you can't have for various reasons?)

If people ask for advice from you give it. If it's just opinions you feel the need to express, just express them somewhere where it won't cause emotional upset in the hearer, they have enough to worry about. The circle approach is excellent- the inner circle people express outward, and the outer people go outer still. Don't be an outer person trying to express something to an inner circle person who is directly affected.

I think challenging the parent in this situation would be counterproductive. They will likely be very defensive and angry which will paint you as an aggressor and them as a victim.

if you want to stay in the group then I would just keep your thoughts to yourself.

Why are you replying on this board if you are just insulting everyone?

I think you are right be remain careful in a group that is valuable to you. You are unlikely to change any minds in that situation. I was thinking maybe to burn off steam you could channel those feelings into a letter to a local MP or some NGO or something to let them know they are supporting this nonsense... what's personal is political and all that 🌻

What basic human rights are being affected?

So Rachel Dolezal is black right?

That's a fair enough critique when it comes to simple straightforward issues but its not regression to accept one's limitations when it comes to professional expertise particularly on highly complex specialised matters like medical health issues. See vaccines as well as gender affirming care.

There's a humility that's been replaced by unwarranted arrogance & I suspect a great deal of that is based on increased political polarisation where expertise gets in the way. People's 'advice' is highly influenced by their personal biases normalising misinformation & disinformation Any layman giving 'challenging' 'advice' comes with a red flag these days & that's all the reason to avoid it.

Agree that we have psychologically regressed.
Actually one of the reasons was when we as a society started to talk in parallel and expected uncritical validation.

We stopped learning how to challenge politely and in a way which maintains the relationship.

We stopped being curious about the motivations and deeper thoughts of others.

It isn’t that long ago that “I see it differently “ or “I don’t think I share your opinion on that” were fairly acceptable.

Agree with this. The topic needs to be normalised rather than polarised.

If the subject comes up I will share my views. But I don't start the topic. However I am still stunned by how uninformed and blinkered many people are, especially those who get their news from the Guardian or BBC. This week i was talking to an old friend who told me how her niece was transitioning ftm. And how much happier the niece seemed. So I talked to her about the impact of large doses of testosterone on young female bodies - from initial cocaine-like euphoria, to early menopause, osteoporosis and brain issues as well as hair/voice effects. And i recommended Hannah Barnes' book Time to Think. She was grateful for the information and maybe it will ripple through and do some good. Many of us, who've been in the Terf trenches, have become very knowledgeable about the practical issues around gender identity. Most people are clueless. I genuinely think we can do a lot of good if we impart this information sensitively in a timely manner.

Identity is universally recognised as a foundational human right. Under international law, this right encompasses two core pillars: legal identity and personal/social identity.

Let’s chat about the “exclusion of basic human rights” - who and what do you mean?

As for its being abusive, the thing is, presuming this started before any post-Cass changes, what the parent was doing was legal. I would regard it as similar to a parent using corporal punishment in areas where that is still legal.

But it wasn't something that was considered perfectly normal and fine for decades, if not centuries, but the tide has changed on public opinion about it... it would have been extremely obvious to most people throughout time that you were either male or female and that was that - and that something like this, even if it had been possible back then, was very clearly not a good or wise thing to do.

We don't have laws specifically banning people from doing things that people are not doing in the first place; the laws have to catch up and be brought in because people start doing bad and dangerous things - often only once new technology and scientific breakthroughs start making it possible for them to even consider doing so.

I suspect many people forget issues are often complex, individual & as such require professional expertise rather than the arrogance of armchair 'experts'.

We live in a dangerous post truth age now where populist thinking has dangerously over reached its capabilities & is normalised as legitimate arbiter. That many are actually quite comfortable with the politicisation of health care rather than the domain of health professionals is indeed a worrying trend.

Depends on the discussion. It would for me if the discussion was about the exclusion of basic human rights for some.

Politics is down stream from personality so I doubt the so called 'friend' can actually truly function as one.

Expressing sympathy would be a good start at getting a GC pov across in a supportive way actually. In TRA world it's all yay let's celebrate. Sympathy is a normal reaction to a child going on heavy duty medication that could be for life, cause them to need surgeries etc.

Nailed it

I regard it as harmful to let children eat a lot of ultra-processed food or have a smartphone.

But I would never tell the mums in my group that if they were wanging on about their kids getting phones.

I'll talk about what I do with my child but not anyone else's.

As for its being abusive, the thing is, presuming this started before any post-Cass changes, what the parent was doing was legal. I would regard it as similar to a parent using corporal punishment in areas where that is still legal. I don't agree with it, but it was a legal parenting choice when they made it, and they don't need my views.

Yes and actually make people double down

This

Again, trans isn't special. Just have a normal conversation. If you'd join in any other conversation they initiate about their families then there's no need to sit in dogged silence on this one. If this parent is really Susie-Green-esque they're going to say some things that seem very extreme to most people in the room. If they're actually more middle of the road then you probably have way more in common than you both think, and conversation will help both of you realise that.

To shake off the silly atmosphere around trans issues, think about how you might interact if they said they were training as a homeopathist, or converting to catholicism or Islam, or leaving their baby home alone while they pop to the shops, or whatever else you may feel strongly about. You wouldn't start a stand up row but you wouldn't hide that it worries you either.

All sounds a bit sixth form common room chat to me from the OP

I would also say I know several families who have had trans issues surface in teenagehood, and all have handled it pretty well and, despite doing some of the things people deem 'wrong' (such as agreeing to change pronouns or names), they have adults who seem to have mostly sorted through this stage and found a way to live that is happy and healthy. None has surgically transitioned. I no longer see this as an inevitable pathway but rather a stepping stone to firming up identity later in life, and often similar to people changing hair, looks, clothes, names, and so on, which happens outside trans contexts as well. Sexuality also seems to sort similarly in the teen to early adult period these days, much earlier than when people had to hide being gay and then ended up coming out much later.