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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you handle gender identity disagreements within a long-standing social group?

205 replies

GuinevereOfTheRoyalCourt · 25/05/2026 14:55

I am very firmly of the opinion that no child can be 'transgender', and that instead we should just embrace the fact that some are gender non-conforming and allow them to express themselves however they choose. I view the use of puberty blockers, x-sex hormones and 'gender-affirming' surgery on children as immoral.

I have participated in a club (my hobby) for many years which mostly includes middle-aged women of a similar age with teenage children. I have been aware for some time (at least 4 years) that one of the women probably had a trans child because of snippets of conversations that I've overheard and generic WhatsApp posts about trans rights.

Anyway, during a recent social gathering - one of the other ladies enquired about the child and it was clear that they have been transitioned for some time but are still only mid-teens. The mother of this child (who I've always got on with well in a superficial small-talk way) is clearly of a very similar mindset to Susie Green. I was quite horrified about what she was saying, but I sat in complete silence. All the other ladies were being really sympathetic and supportive.

This has really played on my mind. I hate confrontations and I really don't want to have any fallings out as this club is really important to me. However, I feel terrible that no other opinion was being expressed and that my silence effectively makes me complicit in the harm of a child.

How do other people deal with this sort of situation? I can't help feeling that most people don't even give much thought to this issue (hence the supportive voices from everyone else) and that we'll only stop this happening if they get to hear the 'other side'. But how can that happen if people like me feel too afraid to speak up?

OP posts:
Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:47

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:45

Well in all fairness she was already taking it before I knew any specifics. But I had no reason to doubt what I was told then either. I now know more about it.

Completely at odds with what you have said on other threads about your cousin’s child

The fact that you think that saying to your cousin at the time that there are long term medical side effects let alone to someone at a social gathering would have made them change their unwavering support for their child is… farcical arrogance

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:45

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:43

So what was stopping you going a 30 second google given you seem to think that if you’d said something at the time - it would have meant the parents didn’t support it so unequivocally?

Well in all fairness she was already taking it before I knew any specifics. But I had no reason to doubt what I was told then either. I now know more about it.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:44

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:43

I said that they were told she was a suicide risk, which obviously impacted their judgement.

That information was false however.

But we aren’t discussing that

you were talking about long term medical side effects

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:43

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:42

Exactly!!! But that poster was saying they were completely ignorant about it.

I said that they were told she was a suicide risk, which obviously impacted their judgement.

That information was false however.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:43

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:19

No I didn't

So what was stopping you going a 30 second google given you seem to think that if you’d said something at the time - it would have meant the parents didn’t support it so unequivocally?

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:42

FarewelltotheHorse · 31/05/2026 15:39

The child's doctor will have talked to both the child and their parents about risks and side effects. They do not need to hear this information again from a non-expert.

Well unfortunately in my cousins child's case this was not conveyed fully. But I didn't know anything about it at the time either.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:42

FarewelltotheHorse · 31/05/2026 15:39

The child's doctor will have talked to both the child and their parents about risks and side effects. They do not need to hear this information again from a non-expert.

Exactly!!! But that poster was saying they were completely ignorant about it.

Brefugee · 31/05/2026 15:40

Answering the question in the OP before reading the thread:
Really good friends? we avoid the topic (i am at odds with my bestie about this, but literally nothing else, so we don't discuss it.)
Good friends & other friends: if it comes up i don't say anything unless asked directly. Then i say that people should be free to dress how they like but that i don't believe anyone can change sex.
Groups of acquaintances and other: i don't say anything at all. I don't nod in agreement and if asked say the same as above.

Because that is my attitude to all this: people can't change sex. People can dress how they like and call themselves what they like. I will use the name anyone asks me to call them (unless obscene) but i don't use pretend pronouns.

FarewelltotheHorse · 31/05/2026 15:39

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 14:35

So when your cousin’s child went on testosterone… you didn’t talk to them about the very well know long term side effects?

The child's doctor will have talked to both the child and their parents about risks and side effects. They do not need to hear this information again from a non-expert.

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:19

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:18

You didn’t know about the long term medical effects?

No I didn't

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 15:18

You didn’t know about the long term medical effects?

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 15:13

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 14:35

So when your cousin’s child went on testosterone… you didn’t talk to them about the very well know long term side effects?

I didn't know anything about it at the time.

I really don't know why you're so very invested in whether I would share this story with other people or not. I'll follow my own judgement, not anyone else's.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 14:35

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 14:33

No. How could I share a story that hadn't happened yet?

So when your cousin’s child went on testosterone… you didn’t talk to them about the very well know long term side effects?

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 14:33

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 14:13

So did you? With your cousin?

No. How could I share a story that hadn't happened yet?

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 14:13

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 11:56

I'm not sure you're right about that, I think it might. So I think it's worth a try.

So did you? With your cousin?

ManyATrueWord · 31/05/2026 14:10

It's like arguing about religion. Rarely are people genuinely open to learning new things.

HolyMonthof · 31/05/2026 12:13

I think the ones with GI views should be the ones worried about losing friendships . Why are GC people so worried about it. I have friends who've left the WI because of the exclusion of trans women , they know my views , I'm still a member we're still friends. Other friends are all GC . And some I don't know their views.

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 11:56

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 11:41

So if a parent hasn’t done a 30 second google about the long term side effects of their child taking a medication - they aren’t going to sit and listen to you telling a story about someone you know

I'm not sure you're right about that, I think it might. So I think it's worth a try.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 11:41

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 09:51

And unfortunately people may not do it, or do it and dismiss it. The reality of detransitioning is something that people don't take on board either. We need to be able to talk about the impacts of all of this, even the problematic ones. By not doing so, we are shoring up more problems for the future.

So if a parent hasn’t done a 30 second google about the long term side effects of their child taking a medication - they aren’t going to sit and listen to you telling a story about someone you know

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 09:51

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 09:41

Due diligence? It’s a 30 second google

And unfortunately people may not do it, or do it and dismiss it. The reality of detransitioning is something that people don't take on board either. We need to be able to talk about the impacts of all of this, even the problematic ones. By not doing so, we are shoring up more problems for the future.

EatMoreChocolate44 · 31/05/2026 09:51

This mother has first hand experience of her child's struggles and what this entails, you haven't. It's not your place to give your opinion on their situation when you know nothing about what they've been through as a family.

EddiesTies · 31/05/2026 09:46

Baileyonice · 31/05/2026 02:00

That none of these define your gender. But her daughter was insistent that these proved she was a man. No amount of reassurance altered her state and she became estranged from someone who seemed like a reasonable and loving parent.

Perhaps the point you were missing is this individual was making a categorical classification based on social associations. That is, his personal presentation/expressions/inclinations/behaviours have more in common with those of men than women on average & as such considered themselves more associated to the category of men than women.

The problem with GC ideology is that it assumes this isn't a values based discussion when it is. That material facts exist doesn't necessarily give them primacy over the non material when it comes to categorisations because they are arbitrary human constructs often based on values. Individuals being individuals understand the world in different ways & as such form their values according to that. Whilst gender critical proponents consider reproductive characteristics as a defining feature of what distinguishes men from women some others don't & they wouldn’t be wrong because sexual characteristics aren't the only way men are distinguished from women socially.

Ultimately, its values that decides a category here so there's no right or wrong.

Hogwash. You aren't raped by a dress.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 09:41

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 09:24

Her own parents were given the whole 'better a son than a dead daughter' line - this was pre Cass. Whatever concerns they had were buried with that hanging over their heads. Just as an example.

I'm not sure everyone does do due diligence unfortunately and lots of people haven't heard any detransitioner's stories.

Due diligence? It’s a 30 second google

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 09:24

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 09:13

If a parent of a child taking testosterone hasn’t done a 1 minute google re long term medical side effects… then you telling your story is unlikely to permeate their tiny brains

Her own parents were given the whole 'better a son than a dead daughter' line - this was pre Cass. Whatever concerns they had were buried with that hanging over their heads. Just as an example.

I'm not sure everyone does do due diligence unfortunately and lots of people haven't heard any detransitioner's stories.

Ricequark · 31/05/2026 09:13

TheKeatingFive · 31/05/2026 09:04

Not to go into too much detail on here, but it can affect skin, sexual function, bladder control. Not pleasant.

If a parent of a child taking testosterone hasn’t done a 1 minute google re long term medical side effects… then you telling your story is unlikely to permeate their tiny brains

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