Any recommended genderist writers?

"Differenty sized" is a really weird phrase. I'd get the instant ick if anyone used it about me!

"and just as I had to overcome my own fatphobia the first time I dated a differently-sized woman."

Expanding the quote doesn't makes it less incel like in nature.

There is no responsibility to have a sexual or romantic relationship with anyone and Serano isn't doing anyone any favours by valiantly sleeping with them despite his disgust.

Queer. Repulsive word.

So these blokes were saying that thinking about it, they might be bisexual. And since being heterosexual is the default, they’d probably never had to consider their sexuality or make a statement about it, while the lesbians would have had to do both - and to fend off all the twatty blokes who joked about being lesbians themselves and / or about being able to turn them. Serano & his ilk would just have been more of the same.

Context matters.

"When I asked the cis men who responded to my ad if they had ever dated a trans woman before, they didn’t disappear like the cis dykes usually did. Instead, most of them gave thoughtful answers. Some said that they found trans women more interesting, open-minded, and/or courageous than the average cis woman. Others said they had honestly not considered dating a trans woman before, but they really liked my profile, and they considered themselves to be queer-positive, so they didn’t consider my transness to be a big deal. Still others put it quite simply: They are attracted to women, and while most of their past partners were cis women, a few were trans women, and it really makes no difference to them.

When cis men tell me these things, it honestly makes me a little sad. I mourn the fact that I have not heard similar sentiments from my own cis queer women’s community. I also find it ironic that cis dykes—many of whom pride themselves on their progressive politics and subversive sexualities—tend to be far more conservative and conforming to our culture’s yuck-dating-a-trans-woman-is-gross mindset than their cis male counterparts, at least here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I am also embarrassed as a queer for the fact that so many straight cis men have worked through, or are beginning to work through, their own issues regarding trans women, whereas most cis queer women refuse to even consider the possibility that they even have an issue.

I know first-hand that it can be difficult to confront such issues. I remember a time many years ago—I was either just about to transition, or I had just transitioned, I can’t quite recall—when I saw a short documentary about two trans women who were life partners. And I am horribly embarrassed to say that, at the time, I was somewhat squicked by their relationship.* *The irrationality of my reaction was not lost on me. After all, I am a trans woman. And I am also attracted to women. So what was it about the idea of being with a trans woman that bothered me so? Over time, I realized that on an unconscious level, I was still buying into the idea that trans women were somehow unattractive, defective, and illegitimate, and that being partnered to a cis woman was somehow inherently better, or more authentic. After much personal reflection, I had to admit that my reaction was profoundly anti-trans. And I eventually got over my internalized transphobia, just as I had to get over my internalized homophobia the first time I sexually experimented with a man, and just as I had to overcome my own fatphobia the first time I dated a differently-sized woman."

Very clear misogyny & homophobia. Also the tired old trope that all lesbians can be turned by the right bloke.

obvious overlaps with incels.

Entertaining thread, full of the usual utter bollocks. I’m recovering after big surgery, so will appreciate pages and pages of guff that I can laugh at through strong painkillers for a few days or even weeks. Keep it going. Every nonsensical utterance from the gender identarians is sure to peak a few more readers.

He also whines about lesbian feminists in Whipping Girl. He is frustrated that they won't look past his penis and see the lesbian he's pretending to be:

Another popular excuse for our exclusion is the fact that some
trans women have male genitals (as many of us either cannot afford or choose not to have sex reassignment surgery). This “penis”
argument not only objectifies trans women by reducing us to our
genitals, but propagates the male myth that men’s power and domination somehow arise from the phallus. The truth is, our penises
are made of flesh and blood, nothing more. And the very idea that
the femaleness of my mind, personality, lived experiences, and the
rest of my body can somehow be trumped by the mere presence of
a penis can only be described as phallocentric.

It’s distressing that such phallocentric arguments, along with
related arguments that harp on the idea that trans women “physically resemble” or “look like” men in other ways, are so regularly
made by lesbian-feminists, considering that they are based in the
society-wide privileging of male attributes over female ones.

Those words all written by a heterosexual male.

Thanks, I just watched an interesting interview with Bornstein from 1994 when the book was published. Pre trans activism - Bornstein comments that some men coming out as non-binary/gender-fluid were carrying through their male entitlement, pushing women aside, and said they had a lot to learn (words to that effect, not quoting).

Yes, that’s what I was thinking of. Total lack of respect for same-sex orientations.

Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-struggle-to-find-trans-love-in-san-francisco/

In Serano's own words:

And when the overwhelming majority of cis dykes date and fuck cis women, but are not open to, or are even turned off by, the idea of dating or fucking trans women, how is that not transphobic? And to those cis women who claim a dyke identity, yet consider trans men, but not trans women, to be a part of your dating pool, let me ask you this: How are you not a hypocrite?

Keep in mind this is a heterosexual male writing this, one who calls himself a lesbian. He is clearly very upset that actual lesbian women are not intererested in males like him.

Chromosomes determine the size of gametes produced, and also hormones.
Unless you are dragging DSDs into the conversation - not cool, don't do that.

Morphology - are you suggesting women with flat chests are somehow 'a bit male'? Or that fat men with man-boobs are 'a bit female?'

if a trans woman exhibits obvious male secondary sex traits they will be categorised as a trans woman rather than a cis woman. IE their reproductive sex is male.

So basically you are saying that if a transwoman doesn't "pass", she is a man?

I assert that every transwoman is a man, i.e. a male. That is literally the defining characteristic and the only thing that all transwomen have in common.
If you are not a man / male, you cannot be a transwoman.

Bornstein not Bernstein. I do think if American culture weren’t so much like it is, including autocorrect which insists that they must be called Bernstein, we wouldn’t be in this pickle. But then the American iron rigid sex culture I'm thinking of has Anglo roots I guess.

Gender Outlaw by Kate Bernstein (also findable online; I’d pay for it but not the current secondhand prices, as I don’t think it’s considered ok enough to reprint ) does all the things that aren’t encouraged any more, like be cheerfully honest about surgery, and about humiliation pornography, and pretty clear that they aren’t a woman and never were (though they still like to describe themselves as one sometimes). For me though there are shafts of light through it, some very unexpected against my own thinking, some not, that give some understanding of their life experience.

Sorry I have t read the whole thread.

I found Shon Faye’s book The Trans Issue; an Argument for Justice a good read and helpful in some ways. I don’t agree with all of it but there is some useful and helpfully challenging stuff there.

i really, really recommend the original essay on intersectional thinking by Kimberlé Crenshaw, which is as crisp as an apple and beautifully argued, easily available online. Helpful to tease out what intersectionalism is and isn’t, important not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I missed this thread up until now, but thought the premise was interesting and started to read through it in order to find out if there were in fact any texts by genderist writers that FWR's wonderful hive mind (!) thought were worth the bother of casting an eye over. Just like OP I'd like to know my enemy, but I'm thoroughly lazy, so a few opinions from women who'd done all the work for me seemed like a win. Then @EmilyinEverton turned up. And I realized that I was barely scanning Emily's self-referential and circular posts, and just properly reading the posts in between his bouts of posturing AI mansplaining. So nice of him, I thought, to come on and demonstrate exactly why there aren't any genderist texts worth the time it would take to read them.

Men are free to 'identify' however they wish. I don't really care why - whether it's autogynephilia, gender woo, or whatever.

However, it does not follow that biological men (with or without a penis) are entitled to use single sex changing rooms, to invade women's sports, lesbian groups, or otherwise infringe upon and stamp all over women's hard won sex-based human rights. We are entitled both morally and legally to say fuck off no.

Sorry @bonfireoftheverities your thread seems to have been derailed so I will also recommend the highly informative Anne Lawrence - Men Trapped in Men's Bodies.

Can you give some actual examples of typical gendered behaviours? It's all been a bit vague so far.

Our charming Em thinks that Dr Upton was correct when he said that he was female and has defended a man working in a toy shop who was wearing big, rubber boobs.

I don't think this poster has anything useful to add to this debate.

Less practical application than an on-line Myers Briggs personality test.

I think the problem is that you are comparing the two as identities and sex is not an identity.

Sex is obviously an important classification (pregnancy would certainly have been a massive shock if I hadn't realised that I am female), but like age it has nothing to do with identity. It's a protected characteristic because of the material consequences of sex which affect women regardless of whether they feel any strong associations with other women or even identify as women.

I'm genuinely racking my brains to think of any situation when gender identity would have been relevant to me, but then I'm still not sure how I would know what it is.

Your understanding of gender seems more similar to an understanding of social class or nationalism. Do you understand that those classifications are also unimportant to many people? That identity is generally a matter that is personal and subjective?