Owen Jones on Facebook

Cross out 'gents'.

Laminate a sign saying 'Gender Neutral'

Stick sign up

Done.

Male violence means the set up of male toilets as one large room designed for multiple people to use at the same time, is not safe for more vulnerable members of the male community. I have no problem accepting that, what I don’t accept is that a) the only males who are vulnerable to male violence in a public toilet are transwomen and b) the only solution is to put transwomen in female toilets.

This set up of toilet facilities is risky for many men who are vulnerable to male violence. Therefore the solution needs to be a redesign of male toilets /spaces.

Exactly how bathrooms should be redesigned (possibly removing urinals, or changing to individual rooms not several loos in one room, or different layouts etc) is something men should sort out and I would fully support trans organisations campaigning to make male bathrooms safer for transwomen.

I am sick of the problem in this debate not being male violence and people like OJ thinking the problem is women not trying to fix the problems caused by male violence.

OJ doesn’t want to understand though does he. Obviously the single sex exceptions were set up for a reason and someone somewhere must have thought about which spaces were places where women would be more vulnerable. At what age does he think male children are safe to use the men’s toilets by themselves I wonder?

I don't really understand this either. What is it about current design of men's toilets that you think is unsatisfactory? Or do you mean, leave the toilets as is, but rename them from Mens to Gender-Neutral (ho ho ho)?

I remain unconvinced by this 'not safe in the Mens' argument. Men's toilets can be dirty and smelly, but I am old, and I have never, in my life, seen any act of violence in a toilet. Which is not to say they never happen, of course. But high-risk? Only for the delicate flowers who find getting out of bed in the morning a challenge, I'd say.

That's what gender neutral does actually mean.

Oh I see. As long as women understand that "gender neutral" is a code for "actually the men's"!

Women won't go near them yes. They will use the womens.

Whereas men can. Even men who say they are women.

It is the simplest solution to the problem.

@Shedmistress I don't understand your post. Women don't want to walk past men pissing in urinals to get to the cubicles.

The mens have urinals AND cubicles. Anyone with half an ounce of sense would have changed the men's to gender neutral years ago.

To be fair it's probably because the men's contain urinals, and the women's only have cubicles (where we know nothing untoward can ever happen because they're cubicles, right, and who cares who's peeing next to you...).

The additional issue that the queue for the women's is always twice as long as the men's, even before you start inviting all and sundry in, is of course never given any consideration.

Edited to add: that famous photo of Eddie Izzard in the queue for the women's toilet wouldn't happen with a woman queueing for the men's, because there is never a queue for the men's!

He has absolutely no evidence for that.

OJ is backchatting JKR. He still doesn't get it.

Owen Jones
1h
The risk of a trans woman being abused or assaulted in the men’s toilet per visit = extremely high.

The risk of a woman being abused or assaulted in the women’s toilet per visit = extremely low.

You are proving the point. A way higher larger percentage of men are violent criminals. We know that. Sort that out. Maybe men need to pay for bouncers in the toilets since men are so crazy.

However I don't think toilets for guys are that dangerous.

They are not 'left without facilities',

Are these desired 'faciities' things like bins for sanpro that they can rummage through?

It's some mental gymnastics by OJ to think that a man going into the gents is in danger from other men, but a man going into the ladies isn't a danger to women. Perhaps he's totally cowed by the women in his life!😂😂😂

But the point is that transwomen can use the men's, there's no physical need for extra facilities for them, like there is a physical need for the adaptations in an accessible toilet for disabled people.

There's no evidence that they are going to be attacked in the men's - unless you take OJ's apparent believe that men are inherently violent as 'evidence'.

So as long as there are men's/women's/accessible toilets available, no transwoman is 'left without facilities' - if they are disabled, they use the accessible toilet; if they are able-bodied they use the men's.

They are not 'left without facilities', they just prefer not to use the facilities designated for their sex.

Why is it only the Ladies that becomes a Gender Neutral Toilet, why is it never the Men's.

Perhaps because this is a male rights movement and anything women have has been given to them as a grace and favour by the men, so the men can take it back when ever they want.

That's the feeling I'm left with because of this codswallop, it just a reminder of women's place in the world, which is under the male thumb.

OJ is a failed mediocrity, his brain is so squirrelly, he's Queer's for Palestine level stupid.

JKR on Owen's latest is up to her usual standard.

J.K. Rowling
Follow the logic. Women are deluded and naive for thinking predatory and violent men can be kept out of women-only spaces. ‘They can rape you anywhere.’ However, trans-identified men can only be safe in women-only spaces, because no abuser would ever follow them in there.

He's railing against a strawman because the EHRC guidance clearly sets out that while women's facilities are only for biological women, it is not reasonable for transwomen to be left without facilities and appropriate universal single-user options must also be available. If a building is only large enough to have 2 loos then it is fine for them both to be fully-self-contained universal single-user, and any larger than that it is possible to divide into appropriate mens, womens and universal options.

Totally agree. He's every bit as much of an incel as Tate.

Little Owhiny Jones' philosophy is that men are horrible and violent, and can't be expected to change, so this is a problem for women to deal with.

Well said Bertiebiscuit and Duncan Bannatyne.

Decent men really need to call LOJ out on this. He's basically said all men are neanderthals including himself. It's not the clever gotcha he thinks it is.

Duncan Bannatyne on Twitter: "You are a complete moron Owen Jones"

Little Owhiny Jones' philosophy is that men are horrible and violent, and can't be expected to change, so this is a problem for women to deal with - all women have to become their mummys, sacrifice their own lives to being kind to men, as women are really only support animals for men, real women that is, the men in frocks can of course carry in depriving women of their legal rights to privacy, safety and dignity and generally making women the audience for their ghastly fetishes. Because in spite of their propensity for violence, men are the real humans deserving respect whilst women are just a servant class who should provide men with babies when required.

I don’t know if this woman is on here, but if she is “I love you”