Owen Jones on Facebook

I don't think you need a specific trans wing, more so a wing for the more obviously vulnerable prisoners. Having a 'trans wing' would simply serve to perpetuate this nonsense.

Fine. They shouldn’t be with general population though. Both prisons need a wing for trans prisoners safety that isn’t encroaching on the safety of women. However they do it, it just needs to be safe as possible for everyone. I would say that sex offenders then conveniently changing their gender should undergo psychiatric evaluation to ensure it is a gender issue and not a sexual predator trying to access women or be put somewhere they deem safer. Which in any case a sex offender is choosing to transition, I suspect it will be the case. A good friend of mine made friends with a newly trans woman last year it transpired it was a peadophile trying his luck. My friend was genuinely upset as she felt this bloke was just a very vulnerable TW. Fucking horrid.

And yet there's a mystifying lack of stories in the press about transwomen being attacked in male toilets. I'm sure much of today's media would be all over this, given half a chance? Perhaps the truth is, that these are very rare events indeed?

“ Trans men “ could have their own wing in a women’s prison

So trans men aren’t at risk in men’s prisons? It’s just a wing making trans people safer. Ultimately if we can have wings that make some of the worst predators in the world safe, we can extend the courtesy to trans prisoners without forcing them in women’s spaces or keep them safe from men.
Im not suggesting it’s for the general population, just trans.

So trans men aren’t at risk in men’s prisons? It’s just a wing making trans people safer. Ultimately if we can have wings that make some of the worst predators in the world safe, we can extend the courtesy to trans prisoners without forcing them in women’s spaces or keep them safe from men.
Im not suggesting it’s for the general population, just trans.

Why on earth should there be “ unisex prison wings”? There should be no men in women’s prisons, they should be on their own separate “ trans women “ wing in men’s prisons

And yet there's a mystifying lack of stories in the press about transwomen being attacked in male toilets. I'm sure much of today's media would be all over this, given half a chance? Perhaps the truth is, that these are very rare events indeed?

I suspect that if you are going to get assualted etc. in the males toilets its likely to be in one of the stalls/cubicles, not the main area.

Male violence means the set up of male toilets as one large room designed for multiple people to use at the same time, is not safe for more vulnerable members of the male community. I have no problem accepting that, what I don’t accept is that a) the only males who are vulnerable to male violence in a public toilet are transwomen and b) the only solution is to put transwomen in female toilets.

This set up of toilet facilities is risky for many men who are vulnerable to male violence. Therefore the solution needs to be a redesign of male toilets /spaces.

Exactly how bathrooms should be redesigned (possibly removing urinals, or changing to individual rooms not several loos in one room, or different layouts etc) is something men should sort out and I would fully support trans organisations campaigning to make male bathrooms safer for transwomen.

I am sick of the problem in this debate not being male violence and people like OJ thinking the problem is women not trying to fix the problems caused by male violence.

Male violence means the set up of male toilets as one large room designed for multiple people to use at the same time, is not safe for more vulnerable members of the male community. I have no problem accepting that, what I don’t accept is that a) the only males who are vulnerable to male violence in a public toilet are transwomen and b) the only solution is to put transwomen in female toilets.

This set up of toilet facilities is risky for many men who are vulnerable to male violence. Therefore the solution needs to be a redesign of male toilets /spaces.

Exactly how bathrooms should be redesigned (possibly removing urinals, or changing to individual rooms not several loos in one room, or different layouts etc) is something men should sort out and I would fully support trans organisations campaigning to make male bathrooms safer for transwomen.

I am sick of the problem in this debate not being male violence and people like OJ thinking the problem is women not trying to fix the problems caused by male violence.

The whole talk of a third space (fourth really) is irrelevant though isn’t it? They don’t want to use the a neutral space, they want us to accept they are women, let them into our space so we can tell them we like their frocks while we was our hands, they get a kick out of it.

theres a lot standing up to him but a heck of a lot saying ‘I don’t mind if trans women use the same loo as me’ like they have the final say. Most women do mind they just aren’t shouting about it because you get labelled a terf

Why on earth should there be “ unisex prison wings”? There should be no men in women’s prisons, they should be on their own separate “ trans women “ wing in men’s prisons

The man is a fucking grifting plank.
Here is an idea, if you recognise male violence is the issue, then ask men to deal with it. We’ve got enough shit to do Owen. FWIW I think unisex toilets in places in the answer. Unisex sporting category’s and unisex prison wings. If people don’t like it tough. Compromise isn’t for everyone but it solves the issue, crack on.
I am a lefty, I want decent healthcare, welfare for those in need, I want decent education and I’m absolutely not opposed to those who work hard in crappy jobs getting government reprisals because the pay that carers, retail, cleaners get is so shite. I’m all for worker rights and protecting the vulnerable and not going into any wars. I’m anti austerity. Yet, Owen Jones makes me queasy. I remember him writing about the demonisation of chavs. Being from social housing/scummy chavvy family etc I agreed with lots of things he said. But he still irked me. Some people just have grifter energy and OJ is one.

That's what gender neutral does actually mean.