Friend shocks me by suddenly saying he's female. How to handle this?

So you work on protecting TIM from men and we’ll work on protecting women from all men. Including those claiming to be women. Like a job share if you will.

So you could use that argument for transwomen couldn’t you? Why do they need to benefit todo the right thing? So if no one can tell their sex, how do TIM know they’re not male?

It's not. It's society's job to protect everyone

re “look like a man but could be a woman”. I did not mean a transman.

I meant, like that transwoman called Alex

A psychotherapist and photographer who started living as a woman while keeping her beard says she wants to "widen the bandwidth of gender".
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/i-want-widen-bandwidth-gender-9686747

How do we tell with our eyes and ears? Many trans women pass very well. Many women are quite butch. What happens if you suspect someone? What do you do? What happens if you are wrong?

Suspect someone of what?

For centuries we just relied on gender expression, exactly the same as we do now. Clothes, hair, etc. Which is perfectly fine for casual societal interaction.
I never said trans women were being killed in bathrooms at an alarming rate, I said they were historically murdered by men at an alarming rate, so I understand their caution, the same as I understand yours. If they are dressed or look feminine that is enough for the wrong man to target them, as homophobic men have for decades. Personally I think we should just swerve the issue and have separate gender neutral toilets, but people seem to have a problem with that too.

That’s up toTIMs isn’t it. Male on male violence not women’s problem.

Many trans women pass very well.

They really really don’t. Even the the really high profile ones who have chemically stopped their puberty or had lots of hormones and surgery still stick like a sore thumb.

You just can’t disguise a male skeleton or that maleness that people born male have.

I also think that if @LittleMyLabyrinth is just posting in ignorance but with good faith then rather than continue to derail OP's thread, she could go and read all about it on other threads.

Perhaps starting with the 'break it down for me' thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?reply=74979263

It's easy for us to forget sometimes that many people don't get it because they have never really thought about it before. We all peaked at some point.

Yes. Unless you have some way of seeing their chromosomes.

OP, I feel for you. I think it would be best for your sanity and stress levels if you treated it like any other sad situation where your prospective colleague had had some sort of breakdown and was unable to take on the project.

Gender ideology either attracts or makes narcissists who seem to think they are the only person that counts in the world. Then sadly, many people around them reinforce that delusion for varying reasons - often just to feel virtuous.

If he is heading off on his journey to ‘find himself as a woman’ which will be fruitless and never ending (as he is not and never will be a woman), then he is likely to be too distracted to give his best contribution to the project.

Another loss to gender ideology but hopefully a lucky escape for you.

I agree, Mmm. I don't believe this poster is arguing in good faith.

Singled sex toilets make no difference = dismissal of a century-old and increasingly global standard, thousands of campaigns and hundreds of charities

Mixed-sex prisons are fine = dismissal of the Geneva Convention, no less

The "maternity service example" not "making sense" = dismissal of the actual systems used, globally, to anticipate and allocate sufficient provision

I mean, I'd be fascinated to see all this actually argued - broken down, justified, supported - as opposed to merely asserted.

But I know why it's not being.

How do we tell with our eyes and ears? Many trans women pass very well. Many women are quite butch. What happens if you suspect someone? What do you do? What happens if you are wrong?
Why do we need to personally benefit to do the right thing by someone?

Predators are going to predate, but it helps if you now the predator who has just come in SHOULD NOT BE THERE so you are allowed to SCREAM, SHOUT, KICK or RUN instead of thinking you cannot say a word because they have a right to be there.

This is whether they appear to look a bit like a woman, or look like a man but could be a woman.

I addressed that.

@LittleMyLabyrinth posted earlier today What rights are you thinking of? I can't think of any that are that specific, but as you say I haven’t given it much thought.

The ignorance around this subject is clear to see. But if she hasn't given it much thought and, in her own words said - idgaf - then it's easy to see how she lacks knowledge and understanding around the subject which many women on these boards have been involved in for years.

It's all very well sitting in a place of privilege knowing that it's not going to be you locked up with a sexual predator.

This was in April this year. A whole year after the Supreme Court judgement.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4glne43101o

I don't deny the threat that men pose to women. I know that from my own experience. I'm saying that afaik calling something single sex or not makes no difference. Predators find a way, and it's rarely in a public toilet. Signage protects nobody, so how are we actually enforcing it without harming women even more?

In which case, their sex-based pronouns remain he/him.

That comment didn’t appear to be about you.

By your argument transwomen (aka men) are no safer using women’s toilets so they may as well go in with the other men

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm a straight woman 🤷🏼

Interesting. From my perspective, I have tried to engage in good faith with any and all arguments and facts and explained why they don't convince me so far. I have even agreed on some counts. On multiple occasions I've acknowledged it is an issue for people, and empathized with that. But to me there is an overarching fact that there are infinitely bigger problems, and yet this topic has only been given more and more weight in the past few years. Why? I am naturally suspicious of any culture war because it's invariably powerful people putting vulnerable people against each other for their own gain.

But in theory I don't see how mixed sex imprisonment is inherently cruel or unusual punishment.

Really?

Tell that to the women raped (and made pregnant) in prison. Tell that to the women forced to shower with male criminals. Tell that to the incarcerated women who have been victims of MVAWG, whom I believe are in the majority of female prisoners.

I do not think you can be a serious poster.

Well, quite. Which is why we're arguing for women being defined and accepted in a way that requires no "policing" - the way we'd always been before this.

If you truly believe that our only choice is between 1) the absolute capitulation of all women to opening previously single-sex spaces to males just on their say-so or 2) these extraordinary, hysterical visions of a dystopian hell...

You're arguing either for the silencing of hundreds of thousands of worried females to accommodate a minority of males (1, above) or for the most extraordinary kind of horrors imaginable (2, above).

Frankly, I find this hard to understand. It feels illogical (and far-fetched to say the least!)

So I just go for 3): women fought for and won single-sex spaces, and these have functioned without the slightest issue for over a hundred years; as such, let's show respect for the hundreds of thousands of women who want to retain this precious gain, while building on it - by campaigning to ensure trans people have equivalent accommodations in their turn.

I think you're just going to have to cut him off, I know it's harsh but you simply can't have anything more to do with him. Ever. This is not about him liking thrash metal and you liking pop.
It's an absolutely fundamental disagreement.
How to go about it? I don't know.

You've got to think of your safety.
He's delusional , you won't be able to support it. People who are delusional don't respond well to having it questioned.
Men are generally stronger than women physically, don't forget.
You might be safer physically if you were a man and a female friend decided to 'become' a male.

It's cut your losses time. Sorry.