EHRC Code of Practice on Services, Public Functions and Associations has been laid - here is the Code itself

Are you saying that you think the onus is on the women to complain, rather than the men to simply keep out of spaces they are not legally allowed to be in to prevent them harassing women and removing their right to privacy, dignity and safety?

And you pretty much give a perfect example of what you are saying is ridiculous and not true.

The Darlington and Peggie cases were possible because there were complainants.

Without complainants there can be no harassment charges.

Yes, good points, I had forgotten. It's the space that we need to focus on. Once the space is determined for particular use, the potential for harassment attaches to the space. So it really doesn't matter if no one at the moment cares. The next woman might, and has a right to expect the space to be exactly what it was set up for.

Is that right?

edited..spelling..again.

Imdunfer, is that the case, though? It sounds logical, however, I think it is the case that if Person A is "racially rude" (for lack of a better term, which I'll come to in a minute) to Person B (who doesn't feel, or chooses not to be, or refuses to acknowledge that they have been discriminated against, or "racially abused ") BUT I'm (Person C) standing next to Person B, and I'm offended, and feel that Person A is being racially discriminatory, I think a case can be brought against Person A for racial discrimination, even though Person B is not interested.

Would that analogy work here? I suppose it depends on at least one woman feeling that another was being harassed?

Any legal bods feel like commenting?

However
this would mean every women needs to be asked if they feel harassed by a man's prescience in their space
There is no requirement to do this

I would say asking every women yhe question alone would make them feel vulnerable and done ashamed that yes they do feel harrassed
A lot of women won’t admit Therefore
To ensure all women are respected equally men need to use their own spaces provided
or
A gender neutral if they prefer

I'm sorry but I don't understand your point.

To reiterate, what I'm saying is that for somebody to be charged with harassment somebody else has to complain that they are being harassed.

If none of the women in the area when the man enters feels harassed by that (and some don't) then there is no possibility of bringing a harassment charge because nobody has been harassed.

Nick Robinson. To be fair to him, he has been pretty impartial and asks questions designed to uncover the facts, of both sides.
In this case it enabled MAS to explain very clearly that women require dignity too, that the law is the law and that if people don’t like it, the way to change it is politically.

Have you any statistics on this, please? I'd like to compare them to the number of disabled people who can't use a loo that isn't adapted in areas where they've been closed or who don't feel safe because they're being misused.

Don't worry, it's the Guardian. They've never been entirely linked to reality of life outside cities and the public sector. They can't represent a majority view because if they did they wouldn't have to keep asking for money.

How do they know how the women feel before they go in there? Do they have the special mandar that lets them know what all women are thinking? If so, then I hope it's a more accurate version than the rest of us possess because I can't even be sure what I'm thinking till I've thought it through and even then I'll change my mind if you'll give me a good reason.

Who’s the bald wazzock dismissing women’s rights?

MAS being pretty clear here, and good to hear her centre women in her response

https://x.com/i/status/2060300868898185232

There are a lot of trans examples, just few that spell out the reality of sex based rights. When I responded to the consultation I made the point quite strongly that anything but complete clarity would leave it open to misinterpretation, both unintentional and deliberate.

Thing is, TIFs don't have 160% the punch power of other women and don't commit 97% of sex crimes. So tbh I'm not bothered about masculine looking women in the toilets as long as I can be absolutely sure they're not of the sex that commit 97% of sex crimes and have 160% the punch power of females.

I particularly want to keep male people who don't give a shit about women's boundaries out as they're indicating they're probably even more likely to be in the minority of men who commit 97% of sex crimes. Not listening to women saying 'no' and all that.

Funnily enough I actually think that a lot of TIFs use the unisex spaces or the mens in part because they know what it's like to be a woman and actually have some empathy for other women (and see them as fully human and not resources to be used even when not consenting).

Another misogynist shows his true colours - thanks for highlighting that, it's good to know who to avoid.

Just caught the end of Michael McIntyre on BBC and Ricky Wilson (Kaiser Chiefs) is wearing a ‘trans rights are human rights’ T-shirt. Under a cardi/jacket admittedly but yuk! Gone right off him . . .

He's actually talking about security at the Chelsea Flower Show and they definitely will have accessible for all facilities so absolutely no need for him to use the women's anyway if he wanted to.

Just a side note - the large majority of transmen do not 'pass well'. There are occasional transmen who can 'pass' when met briefly and casually, but they are not the majority. There are a very few exceptional individuals (though more than transwomen) who truly 'pass' - as in being undetectable to all but intimate friends.

And what's more, ability to pass has nothing to do with trans identity - one has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment the moment that you decide that you're transgender, irrespective of any outward appearances. And there are in fact women who identify as women (rather than trans) who take testosterone, (even developing facial hair) to alleviate dysphoria.

Not objecting to your overall argument, others have addressed it well. But we should keep the every day facts of the matter in mind.

Stephen Whittle is a transman and I would say he passes as a man at a glance. He has been using male facilities for years by stealth. This is what the code covered. Even if you are biologically female, if you pass as a man you should not use the female facilities.

TRAs are really struggling to get their heads around this because they have no nuance between a biological woman who looks like Stephen and a biological man who looks like Eddie Izzard. Eddie is never going to pass as a woman so he can't use the female facilities by stealth. Likewise India Willoughby.

Stephen himself gets this '70-year-old Whittle did not stray from habit. “Of course I used the male facilities, as I have done for the last 50 years. Can you imagine what the guy on security would have said if I’d gone to the ladies?”

Thank you - I need to catch up!!!

But trans men are women

clearly they really still don’t get it do they

Very good point! I'd forgotten about the "why would anybody go through all that just to pee" argument/gotcha. It reads as so 2017 now, doesn't it, and the TRAs probably think we've all forgotten that this used to be The Mantra.