Content warning - Teenage boys escape prison for rape

Thank you. There is no such thing as Age either. Being a female infant or a female vulnerable in old age does not mean you are immune to being raped, just that nobody, legally, cares. There were iirc some systems to self report having been raped. There were age groups. But, with an upper cut-off age, so nobody in the country who is over that age was/is allowed to report the crime. (Nor, come to think of it, could a whistle blower or other witness)

It is particularly hypocritical if they areb travellers, as traveller girls are under very strict "no sex before marriage" rules. As with the many rape gangs in the north of England and elsewhere, it seems women and girls outside the perpetrators' own narrow cultural purview are regarded as worthless and fair game.

I agree. They know what consent is. In their world it goes with a proposal and a wedding ring only or they’ll be dead. Outside their world these young girls barely counted as human.

Even someone of low intelligence, if indeed that applies here rather than lack of education - can recognise distress in another person. So no excuses whatsoever, whether about understanding consent or not. These boys have been trained in one way or another (community culture? porn?) to see girls and women as objects whose wishes they can ignore. It is particularly hypocritical if they areb travellers, as traveller girls are under very strict "no sex before marriage" rules. As with the many rape gangs in the north of England and elsewhere, it seems women and girls outside the perpetrators' own narrow cultural purview are regarded as worthless and fair game.

"Boys will be boys", bless them. But women are held accountable, even if they are victims of "boys" of the same age.

Low intelligence be damned, as others have pointed out, they were able to plan and carry out two ambushes and rapes. It may well be that they scored low, because they have poor literacy, as many travellers have no formal education.

In any case, if, as was said, they have little insight into their crimes, they need locking up, in order to protect girls. Like mules, they may learn their lesson slow, but it needs to be taught.

Thank you.

So am I right in thinking he most likely did rape one girl but there was no way of him being convicted as there was.no other witness?

I do mind that there’s such outrage about this in society, but practically none when adult women are raped. That’s also wrong.

You can appeal to The Attorney General. If enough complaints are made he will have to review the sentences

In my opinion, as alluded to by pp, the boys have also been let down by the sentencing.

It is not good enough to list mitigating factors - which as noted in the Spectator article can just as easily be seen as aggravating - as if that somehow means a lesser sentence will achieve the same as a harsher one would have done had the factors not been present.

This is an opportunity to turn these boys away from lives of violent crime in which they will certainly commit more rapes and probably commit murder.

But instead, after committing these truly horrifying crimes and dragging their victims through court, they are given this pathetic slap on the wrist, receive words of praise and sympathy from this misguided judge, and sent on their merry way.

I think Darren Jones’s reaction spoke volumes and we as a society deserve better. As for the brave victims, my heart aches for them.

Imagine needing two witnesses in Scotland to prove rape.

@ArabellaScott am I right in thinking he was acquitted but the girl did not make up that she had been raped as far as the jury was concerned?

In Scotland nobody can be convicted upon the basis of the evidence of a single witness.

I know this is a separate case but what the hell?! That has truly shocked me, how do they ever get convictions for rape or domestic abuse with that?

Jess Phillips referring to the girls as “young women “ is an insult. Why are the boys referred to as “boys” yet the girls referred to as “young women”?this is the problem with society in full sight

I have to say, my jaw rather dropped at the following in the article you've linked, given that Hogg admitted to at least one count of penetration of a child aged 13 -

'Firstly, Sean Hogg has clearly suffered too. Had Sean Hogg been acquitted when he should have been acquitted, it is highly unlikely that, other than those directly involved, anybody in the UK would ever have heard anything at all about him or his case. Sean Hogg hit the headlines nationwide because he was sentenced to community work for rape – when he should never have been sentenced at all. As Sean Hogg emerged from the court to face the press pack in the car park, he was asked the presumably rhetorical question “are you a danger to women?” – an interaction that was broadcast on the evening news. It seems unlikely that Sean Hogg would ever have asked that question – far less it being broadcast on national TV – had the jury simply been given the correct legal directions and acquitted on the basis of them.'

Re
He said they were very young, had low intelligence, a limited understanding of consent and were susceptible to peer pressure.

I don’t believe they don’t understand consent.

I think they just think they can do what they want to non - Traveller girls.

Does anyone remember the programme ‘My Big Fat gypsy Wedding’? As I recall young girls were untouchable and a religious wedding was everything to them all. Possibly if one if their own traveller girls were to be raped, some among them would pulverise the rapist.

If she thought she was meeting one boy for ‘a first date’ and they were all waiting, then that rape was planned. They are cunning and malevolent.

Then they raped a second girl. How can that not be a plan?

These sentences will not be enough to change their evidently porny and misogynist upbringing. They have not really been sentenced.

I should think lots of boys now see how easy it is.

Also, what is this? “restraining order for 10 years not to contact their victims”?

So when those girls are 25 and 24 those monsters are free to turn up?

Yup -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/over-1000-sex-attacks-men-29916121?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

news.sky.com/story/sean-hogg-and-the-guidelines-for-sentencing-under-25s-in-scotland-12868279

We already have secure units for under age criminals, some are used for children in demand and some provide therapeutic secure care. They were good at providing this back in the 1980's and 90's, so I can't believe that we have lost the way to the extent that they are no longer in use.

Thank you for the further information.

Whatever the mitigating factors for an underage rapist - as shown in one of your links - while it may mean these perpetrators need special treatment in a specialist units, that cannot mean they do not go to some sort of prison.

They need a special prison for a long time so there is a chance to re-educate and rehabilitate them, and keep girls safe.

If none exist, make some instantly. It can’t be impossible.

its on the National news right now!

its on the National news right now!