Unite the Kingdom - LWS/WRN

A good question...

I just did a Google search and apparently there is a mixture. E.g. some countries like Spain and Germany allow EU citizens to sit on municipal councils. Also it said that New Zealand allows any permanent resident registered on the electoral roll to vote and run for local authority/council elections, though holding national parliamentary roles requires citizenship.

This was an interesting story in my news feed this morning on the subject:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c794xg4p1npo

The story is annoying to read because of the pronouns used for the (male) non-binary non-UK citizen. But setting that aside, taken at face value it looks like there is confusion within a national party in Scotland about what the law is there. (Or perhaps just sexism and/or a DEI overreach to include a special male candidate but the lady didn't quite have enough oppression points when the box ticking exercise was completed).

Reform have recently started to kick up noise about Commonwealth voting. I can see that getting cut through because most normie white Brits don't know that Commonwealth voting exists.

I don't even have a problem with Commonwealth voting, if we're talking about long-term permanent residents. I have no idea if Shabana Mahmood's parents are naturalised citizens or dual nationals or Pakistani citizens, but they've been in Birmingham for decades and it would be absurd if the Home Secretary's family members couldn't vote for her.

But there's that, and then there's extending the vote to some random bloke who arrived from Cameroon last month on a student visa. And under legislation Labour is putting through Parliament, Commonwealth citizens would be automatically enrolled rather than having to make the effort to get on the electoral register.

But having a candidate elected to Holyrood who doesn't even have permanent residency, that's just taking the piss and will wake up a bunch of people who didn't believe it could happen.

We are told that climate change is going to create many more refugees. Partly due to natural disasters and partly wars over resources.

Are we going to welcome all of them?

We have government ministers who seem to think we should. Greens suggested anyone arriving in the UK should have full citizen rights from day one.

And Zack Polanski wanted to have a chat with Putin, iirc. And get rid of all nuclear weapons. It's a vision of world politics that is almost admirable in its unbridled naivety and stupidity.

A twin suggestion that there are no bad guys, and that the UK must sacrifice its own wellbeing to make amends for historic events. I suppose this is what queering politics looks like.

Are they, all of them, most of the jobs you listed are self-employed jobs, are they all declaring their whole income, are they paying all the tax they should be, why would Muslims be so special.

I can't imagine for a minute that most jobs in business, medicine, politics or law are self-employed. My assumption is that "Muslims are productive members of society" means that they are no more or less productive than any other category of people - and that this was the point being made here.

If diversity is our strength then why are we in such a mess.

There are many reasons why we're "in such a mess", including an overreach of DEI. Divisiveness and tribalism can also cause a mess. But equally, there are lots of things that aren't in a mess. One thing I would call out though as an example of a mess, that has been mentioned by PPs above, is Sharia courts. Personally, I think allowing them is a massive DEI overreach. Although their decisions aren't legally binding, I can't imagine too many women come out with a fair deal in marriage/divorce disputes or choose to exercise their legal rights to override them (owing to community pressure to conform to the decisions).

If we need immigrants for the economy, why aren't we the richest nation, considering the millions of immigrants we have, why isn't our economy booming, why aren't we the envy of the world.

I would assume we need immigrants for the economy as much as any other nation does. Every country has to grapple with how much freedom of movement to give foreign citizens to live and work within it. And obviously not every Muslim is an immigrant. According to ONS figures (which I trust more than BBC Verify TBH), immigration in the UK is on a downward trend:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70989jrdweo

Also according to the ONS, only 6.5% of the UK population is Muslim: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

This article says it was 'likely' he renounced his citizenship

https://www.dawn.com/news/1034220

Well I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know where it is the law that needs to change or the policies around enforcing that law.

For example, we already have laws around preaching extremism, noise pollution and coercive control but they don’t seem to be enforced in a remotely effective way.

We have laws on child safeguarding but even though they contributed to the tragic death of a little girl by hampering normal safeguarding, there seems to be no desire to ban hijabs from schools.

We have laws on hate crimes but despite the vast numbers of rapes by Pakistani Muslims on girls specifically because they were white, I am not aware of the prosecutions utilising the hate crime aggravator (or even managing to prosecute the vast majority of the rapes).

We have laws on people smuggling but as the BBC has recently uncovered, Muslims in the U.K. are sponsoring relatives to be smuggled into the country by the gangs who have registered company address in the U.K. this has been going on for some time and despite having a stated aim to ‘stop the gangs (or boats , I can’t remember)’, the BBC bloke has established more information on that then the British authorities have managed in years.

We have laws on electoral fraud that were reportedly breached many times in recent elections but the authorities (many of whom have very close ties with the alleged perpetrators) refuse to acknowledge it. What’s the point of having an independent international election monitor if you are going to ignore its reports? (And ironically disenfranchise some Muslims.)

Unfortunately we don’t appear to have laws on things like preventing convicted terrorists running for election. Or laws to stop government attempting to buy votes by bringing in blasphemy ‘laws’. Or to stop them attempting to fundamentally change our society without consent using mass immigration.

I’m sure there are many other areas that need either law or policy change to protect our society from change being imposed by people who absolutely do not share our cultural values.

Thoughts?

Im not sure. Seems this woman was told she couldn't run because of her student visa. But Mannivannan was told differently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c794xg4p1npo

Nassim Nicholas Taleb's Minority Rule, or the concept of the "intolerant minority". That a small, intransigent group can impose its preferences on a flexible majority.
A simple explanation.
https://x.com/i/status/2046306842633277753

We are seeing this with Halal meat. Legally this method of slaughter is allowed for religious purposes only. However it is now appearing in supermarkets without clear labelling and being served to all children at some schools. A Sikh shop owner put up a sign saying proudly not halal meat which resulted in a mob harassing him and his shop.
I'm sorry but the majority needs to up it's intransigence, enforce the law and say No.

Didn't Anas Sarwar's dad have to renounce his UK citizenship so he could become Governor of the Punjab?

I can't find another country that allows foreign nationals to become members of government, for example. Unless anyone knows of any examples?

Which is the crux of it. Britain is on the whole a very welcoming and tolerant society in comparison with many others.

This has benefits but also risks.

Also some concerning reports from Jewish schools. There is often tension between faith and a pluralist society, I suppose.

Are they, all of them, most of the jobs you listed are self-employed jobs, are they all declaring their whole income, are they paying all the tax they should be, why would Muslims be so special.
If diversity is our strength then why are we in such a mess. If we need immigrants for the economy, why aren't we the richest nation, considering the millions of immigrants we have, why isn't our economy booming, why aren't we the envy of the world.
So many questions.

I would agree with you here. No special laws or exemptions for Muslims, but a blanket policy for all immigrants, of all nationalities and faiths. Curriculums should reach the same standards for both boys and girls, and as you say, there should be no legal systems concurrent to the host country.

These kind of situations can crop up frequently in Christian faiths too, unfortunately. Some of the worst I’ve encountered - that put me off any type of faith forever - were Baptist churches, some experiences with the Catholic Church and a large cult called Exclusive Brethren.

Pathetic response.
https://www.secularism.org.uk/opinion/2025/07/is-islam-compatible-with-british-values

@Imnobody4.🎯
No parallel legal systems!👏👏👏

I was asking @CornishDaughteroftheDawn what specific laws and policies sĥe would like to see, regarding Muslims, given she brought it up.

What laws and policies regarding Muslims do you want to see?

You're being deliberately obtuse. Laws and policies apply to everyone. We don't need special laws/ exceptions for Muslims that's the point.
They need to run their schools according to Ofsted standards for example and not discriminate against girls.
There should be no parallel legal systems.

I should have added robust action against Mosques promoting misogyny and extremism.l

What laws and policies regarding Muslims do you want to see?

Measures to encourage assimilation, speaking English, respect for our democracy and laws and becoming a productive member of our society.

Those measures are already in place and have been for a long time. I agree with you that speaking English is the big one for recent arrivals. As for respecting our democracy and being productive members of society, see my previous post about Muslims in business, medicine, politics, law etc.

Muslims are productive members of society.

Muslims work in the NHS, in hospitality, they own businesses, they are MPs, teachers, voluteers, landlords, our emergency services, taxi drivers, friends and family members. Like Sikh, Hindu, Jewish, Christian and atheists.

I know what Muslims do, what is your point?

What changes are currently being imposed on you by foreign cultures?

You really aren’t paying attention are you. Try going to Blackburn, Birmingham, London or many other UK towns and tell us what you see. The most recent issues coming to light as exposed by the BBC is widespread corruption and fraud around immigration, money laundering, the import of illegal goods and use of high street shops as a front for organised crime.

What else do you want from Muslims when you talk about assimilation? What measuresare you talking about?

Measures to ensure that foreign religion and cultures are not imposed on us. Measures to ensure fair and equal treatment for all. Measures to encourage assimilation, speaking English, respect for our democracy and laws and becoming a productive member of our society.

‘Measures’ are generally things like laws and policies if you are not quite clear on such terms.

Policies promoted by the 'Muslim Vote' campaign on its website include

• Remove teaching about LGBT issues from schools when religious parents object
• Abolish government 'extremism' definition along with Prevent programme
• Government to adopt the APPG definition of Islamophobia, which does not adequately differentiate between prejudice against Muslims and critique of religious beliefs, ideas, and practices

We already have equality laws in this country. Shouldn't there be one set of laws that protect us all equally.

British people are also Jews, Sikhs,Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Pagans, atheists as well as many Muslim sects.
As I said previously holding a clear line. We should be a robust liberal secular democracy. No blasphemy laws by the back door, insistence on the same rights for all women and children irrespective of religion. Freedom of speech including the right to offend.
One law for all equally applied.
It's really not difficult, it just requires a spine.Why would British Muslims object?

What changes are currently being imposed on you by foreign cultures?

Muslims work in the NHS, in hospitality, they own businesses, they are MPs, teachers, voluteers, landlords, our emergency services, taxi drivers, friends and family members. Like Sikh, Hindu, Jewish, Christian and atheists.

What else do you want from Muslims when you talk about assimilation? What measures are you talking about?

Well they need to start treating us all equally and start respecting free speech. Then they need to grow some balls and stop the changes that are currently being imposed on us by foreign cultures and take action to stop the oppression of people in our society in cultural and religious grounds.

Muslims should be required to assimilate into our society like any other group should be. The majority already do but we need measures to encourage that.