Unite the Kingdom - LWS/WRN

From what i read it wasn't so much the differing opinions but the nasty memes that resulted.

This is helpful.

I'm left wing and haven't actually been inundated with any of these things, other than pro Palestine. But I'm also pro Palestine.

@MyrtleLion This is not that women are stupid. I'm not saying that at all. It's that we may forget how to argue our point because we spend so much time in our own groups.

You've posted this straight after telling us how you left a group because the women in it had different opinions to you.

This is not that women are stupid. I'm not saying that at all. It's that we may forget how to argue our point because we spend so much time in our own groups.

You completely miss my point. Gender critical left wing women are very well adapted to arguing their viewpoint with people who disagree with them on this subject. We are used to being in the minority opinion in our political and social groups and we are sometimes find ourselves in the company of people with whom we profoundly disagree on many different areas.

Coming to FWR and stating we get less exposure to opposing viewpoints because we like to stay in our own circles? Pull the other one.

We're all subject to manipulation without realising it. If you limit your feed to similar viewpoints then you will get fed more of that viewpoint. The attached image is a representation of Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann's Spiral of Silence.

Essentially she said

1. the more acute a controversy
2. the more adherents of opposing viewpoints avoid each other
3. the more the estimates of the climate of opinion will differ
4. they judge more and more
5. on the basis of fewer impressions
6. from fewer different social circles.

R indicates reinforcing loops.

So we seek out common ground with like-minded people. We avoid those who disagree. We assume speaking out brings danger to us and they think speaking out brings danger to them. We judge each other more on the basis of less exposure to opposition views from smaller social circles that are completely different to the other side.

This is not that women are stupid. I'm not saying that at all. It's that we may forget how to argue our point because we spend so much time in our own groups.

The best example in the UK is Brexit. We forgot how to argue in favour of the EU and now Labour dare not even mention rejoining.

@MyrtleLion I wouldn't be surprised if Reform encourages its women members to join such groups and post their opinions to see how much traction they get. It's infiltrated propaganda.

Right, because gender critical women who also support Reform are just vacuous tradwives who do what they are told by TR and his crew? Are we really going to say that about other women, with zero evidence?

The Reform-supporting women I chat to seem to be genuinely seeking a space with other women. They are often surprised to find that we don't all think or vote as they do. The possibility for genuine dialogue across the cultural and class divides in these GC groups is significant. However, we have to start by accepting that we all use very different language to express our concerns and have very different cultural references and jokes and memes. We will offend and be offended. The work is daunting, but the men haven't achieved it. How about we women give it a go?

This

Our poor little woman brains - so easily manipulated. We only have enough brain cells to battle on one front. One minute we're thinking 'hang on maybe women DON'T have penises' the next we're burning crosses in the local asylum hotel's front car park.

😂😂😂

Women, know your limits 😉

Yep, being politically homeless is shit.

I'm sorry to hear that you're treated as a pariah by the locals. That's also a very shit position. So far, I've only had a few people IRL tell me that my views are awful. It's not much fun when it happens but I console myself in knowing that they don't actually know what my views are. From the conversations I've had, it's clear they can't be bothered to ask and would rather just assume. I can't be arsed with people like that TBH.

Outside the bubble of Brighton, I'm guessing you'll have far more people who are glad at what you're doing than not.... they just probably daren't say it. Even inside the bubble, you'll have plenty of silent supporters.

(I do like Brighton BTW. But it really is a funny little bubble all of its own. Its nearest match is probably Bristol. Both forever Green and both on an unstoppable path of progression above all else).

Gradually your feed becomes a little more right wing and you barely notice it and can find yourself nodding along. Before you know it you're agreeing that "all Muslim men are a threat to women" and then suddenly you're posting racist opinions.

How weird that the same women who were fed Trans Women Are Women, Be Kind and Respect My Pronouns propaganda on social media, at work, in education and real life for the past ten years were able to think critically and challenge back - sometimes at the risk of their own lives, incomes, jobs and families - but then became completely vulnerable to manipulation and right wing algorithms and transformed into Reform supporting racists.

Hmm.

Did they though?

Our poor little woman brains - so easily manipulated. We only have enough brain cells to battle on one front. One minute we're thinking 'hang on maybe women DON'T have penises' the next we're burning crosses in the local asylum hotel's front car park.

@CornishDaughteroftheDawn yes I’d agree with your assessment. Furthermore I’d say TR is only doing for Islam/mass immigration what KJK did for gender ideology. Their stars have aligned now because both can see the impact extreme institutional policies have had on the country and on women and girls in particular.

Speaking from a personal point of view, after being called a nazi by lots of angry young men multiple times for standing up for women’s rights, being accused of being a far right bigot by politicians is water off a ducks back for me now.

Exactly. Not a single clear unequivocal statement that trans women are men, women deserve privacy dignity and safety, trans rights are not superior (or inferior) to all human rights.

Just one party line. In black and white. That's all we'd need. But there isn't a single one.

Yaxley-Lennon isn't on any slate I know of 😵BUT if I can't vote for any of the parties you quoted, because of my own personal involvement in this madness, I dunno where to put the X (not that it matters in Brighton, the Greens have a stranglehold, I might as well put the vote in the bin anyway)

I don't like being here. I last belonged to the Greens as a paid up member, before that, Labour. Now I am politically homeless and treated like a pariah by the locals.

The rise of Islam and the rise of Gender Ideology are very similar inasmuch as they are both a men’s rights movements. I think many women had their minds opened by the gender wars after being abandoned by their previous tribe on the Left. Many are happy to do their own research on topics now regardless of the source being seen as right or wrong by the mainstream.

And if you're left wing you get inundated with pro trans, pro Palestine, anti Israel, anti GC. Oct 7 was a hoax, trans women are under constant attack etc,etc.

TBF, it's not nobody on the left, it's not enough people in key positions on the left.

Taking things in what I think is the order of leftiness:

Your Party - Jeremy Corbyn and Zara Sultanah are TWAW.

Greens - Zack Polanski is full-on TWAW.. but Green Women's Declaration exists and think TWANW.

Labour - Keir Starmer finally seems to realise that women don't have penises.... but has just appointed a health secretary who thinks TWAW. He's a flip-flopping liability but it's probably better to have him stay as leader than run the risk of someone who is certain that TWAW getting into the driving seat. Labour Women's Declaration exists and think TWANW.

Lib Dems - Ed Davey is full on TWAW. Liberal Democrat Women want TW in women's spaces.

Unfortunately I've had to abandon my natural political affiliation with the Lib Dems, not least because my own MP is a TRA who isn't interested in listening to reason. When I asked her to sign the puberty blocker petition, she told me how much she supports trans people and why it's so important... and why my concerns about puberty blockers were apparently unwarranted.

It's beyond frustrating that the leaders in each of these parties can't see sense - and that it's a complete lottery as to whether the politicians in them are like my MP or quietly like the grass roots Women's Declaration groups within the wider party membership. But personally, that still won't tip me towards Tommy Robinson.

I think if you are gender critical, the algorithm will serve you content that is right wing, because the right wing parties and right wing news sites are usually the only ones to agree that sex is real and immutable.

Gradually your feed becomes a little more right wing and you barely notice it and can find yourself nodding along.

Before you know it you're agreeing that "all Muslim men are a threat to women" and then suddenly you're posting racist opinions.

I saw it happen in my WRN group and was told to ignore it or answer back. Then I was piled on when I did answer back. Eventually I left after a particularly nasty meme was posted in the group.

I wouldn't be surprised if Reform encourages its women members to join such groups and post their opinions to see how much traction they get. It's infiltrated propaganda.

Because nobody on the left is supporting them. Assume someone has already said this but I thought I'd say it again anyway.

No. If you actually read your link for the 19 year old buying guns, he committed the offence in 2023.

He had unwittingly been talking to undercover MI5 agents for months on encrypted messaging apps before he was surrounded by officers armed with Tasers in a Morrisons car park in Stratford on 29 September 2023.

We can see what extremist racist grooming can do

Agreed, yet only one of your links is to an offence where a person was injured. Your claim was:

“increasing numbers of neo-Nazis who were radicalised online who commit murder and groom others”

But you haven’t any evidence of anyone committing murder or ‘increasing numbers’.

The founder of "attach flags to lampposts" (which is illegal without authorisation and a safety hazard) is Ryan Bridge who last month was arrested on suspicion of racially-aggravated offences:

Unfortunately in this day and age, that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. The police recently handcuffed a man on a false accusation of racial abuse. The man had been fatally stabbed by a Sikh attacker and died soon after.

Suspicion of is not evidence of your claim.

"go back over a period of 3 years."

Two of the articles I posted above are current and the other two are in the past year. And the two self-confessed Scottish neo-Nazis who "said awful things" were recruiting others into becoming Nazis and groomed a young child into Nazism too- including getting her to do Nazi salutes and posted the video online.

We can see what extremist racist grooming can do- one of the recent articles shows a radicalised teen try to behead an innocent man with an axe because he was Muslim.

The founder of "attach flags to lampposts" (which is illegal without authorisation and a safety hazard) is Ryan Bridge who last month was arrested on suspicion of racially-aggravated offences:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/raise-colours-co-founder-ryan-33702325

Individuals and Council workers who have taken their flags down have been subject to abuse, threats and violence online and offline. Some Councils have needed police escorts to take them down.

There seem to be increasing numbers of neo-Nazis who were radicalised online who commit murder and groom others (including children) into becoming neo-Nazis.

So you claim ‘an increasing number’ but the offences you listed (one of actual violence by a teenager, one of planning violence and one of saying awful things online) go back over a period of 3 years.

Compare that with 3 confirmed Islamic terrorist attacks in the same time period with 3 murdered and 3 seriously injured, with Islamic terrorism accounting for 75% of the terrorist threat to the UK and a significant number of terror attacks prevented. Despite followers of radical Islam being a tiny minority in our country.

The ‘far right’ and ‘neo Nazis’ claims are further muddied and inflated by even our own Prime Minister labelling huge swathes of the general public (and inadvertently his own Home Secretary) as ‘far right’.

They're a hate group who illegally attach flags to lampposts to intimidate.

Can you provide evidence for this as their intention please.

Right.

Well as PP said, if you think there is genuine racism in your group (and you are not confusing that with concerns about certain cultural or religious practices) and you have tried to push back and got nowhere, then report the racism and either stay to see if the situation improves, or leave and look elsewhere for networking opportunities.