Inside the mind of a non-binary woman

*with a mare.

No violence on this thread, please.

I was in secondary school for three years with a girl who was a pony, except during classes.

"He came out to a friend aged 4"

Come on, now.

I would love to hear how this went and why you think it was "coming out" rather than a thing a 4 year old said once, alongside lots of other funny, mad and demonstrably untrue things 4 year olds say.

Unless your 4 year old was a prodigy, she did not have a nuanced think and discussion about the nature of gender and sex; what happened is that she said to her little friend, "I'm really a boy [like my brothers]" and perhaps kept up the play with that friend as a running game.

Any number of parents could claim on exactly the same basis that their child has "come out" as Queen Elsa, a cat or the secret prince of a faraway country.

The only difference between those children and your daughter is that your daughter has a parent who has decided, post facto, to take it seriously and attach a profound capital 'M' Meaning to it.

I second @FlirtsWithRhinos questions about what this word "boy" or "man" actually means when you use it.

I'm trying to process "he came out to a friend age 4".

Transparent your child is not relevant here.
We are responding here to direct quotes from the article where the person concerned says they knew they were nonbinary because [stereotypes].

'cis' was invented by an apologist for perversion

or as John Money would have it, for paraphilia

https://grokipedia.com/page/Volkmar_Sigusch

Has two older brothers and came out to a friend aged 4

Genuinely, what does "boy" or "man" even mean to you? Why in your view do these words even need to exist at all? What's the actual, meaningful difference between the people who are "boys and men" and the people who are "girls and women"?

What do you consider that your child has in common with male bodied people that makes the word "boy" or "man" appropriate for both the majority of those people and your child?

When you agree that your child is a "boy" what are you saying about all the other people in the world who are also "boys"?

When you agree that your child is not a "girl", what are you saying about all the other people in the world who are "girls"?

Why is it reasonable to have names for trivialities like the different hair colours humans can have, but not for something as fundamental as the different sexes?

Erm, I'm afraid that isn't the case. Thanks for listening though.

As I've said before, I am a very gnc cis woman. Had two cis boys before raising my third (who turned out to be a trans boy, but was raised as a cis girl). He wore his brother's clothes, fell in with what they wanted to do - and challenged me about what femininity was.

I had zero idea. I can't do trad girl hair, live in jeans and shirts and never wear make-up. Having suffered with a mother who badly wanted me to be a trad girly girl, I was determined to raise this child to be tough, strong, independent and opinionated.

Friends joked things would be reversed and my being gnc would mean I'd have a girly girl. Yep. So I had to learn to live with pink, frills, unicorns, and the rest oh god I had to keep quiet about how I felt. Thankfully my husband learned to do the fiddly hair. Kid 3 was a ballerina, drama kid, gymnast, musician and profoundly good dancer who had auditions at Covent Garden.

And...he's still like that.

He came out to a friend aged 4, and to me nine years later.

Being a trans guy has nothing to do with being gnc, or even being on the feminine/masculine spectrum. He is still extremely feminine, and has not really changed that much. I'm the same too. We just understand each other better these days.

My mum is totally supportive of him, while still complaining I don't try enough to look female - which is brilliant. I say nothing :)

Raising a trans child makes you confront a lot of internalised prejudice about what gender really is. He very definitely explored trad "boy" things - he regularly beats his brothers at games like cricket and air hockey, much to their chagrin - and got constant lectures about feminism, misogyny and sexism. Did all the rough and tumble stuff they did, at playgrounds and home.

He isn't a gnc cis woman, and he isn't a cis man. He is a trans man who's confident enough in his gender to wear what he wants - and a passionate feminist who was always in control of his life, forever showing me which direction was his and walking his own path.

Methinks "violence" has a rather different meaning in the Righteous dictionary, as does "man/woman/male/female/sex/inclusive/diverse/kind"...

Me me me me…YAWN

The non-binary father of three I know is a perfectly pleasant and very intelligent man but hell will freeze over before I ask him about his transition and style choices, for fear of something like this article coming out. Naturally I use his chosen name and if required, his preferred pronouns. I would be no less or more violent if I didn’t though.

Why was the man using her pronouns when he was actually with her? If you are with someone surely you say their name or you?

Just remember (if it ever comes to trial) that if in the meantime he has decided to transition you MUST use his new pronouns or you could be in contempt of court.

Because while him using your preferred pronouns wasn’t quite enough to protect you from his actual violence, using the correct pronouns for him while in court is also actual violence, though strangely enough not violent enough to cause bruising, put him in hospital, give him an std and PTSD for the rest of his life.

Perfect!

I do think it's fascinating that some of the white people who will talk endlessly about white privilege, white comfort, white fragility, etc. will claim to be oppressed and traumatised by other people's use of pronouns.

Good for her, my Dds are adults and also think it is nonsense.

Anyone else now singing Shania Twain’s “ Man! I Feel Like A Woman!” ? No? Just me then !

One of my most favorite photos of my daughter was her first day of kindergarten when she picked out the cutest pink frilly outfit and paired it with her favorite Spiderman lunchbox. As a teen some days she goes to school dressed to the nines with full makeup other days she wears baggy sweats. I would have thought she was nonbinary but she thinks gender ideology is nonsense 🤷

It's crazy isn't it.

Using a person's pronouns is actually IME a way of saying "yeah, whatever, I don't respect you enough to be honest with you"

So if a strange man comes up to me in a dark alley and calls me she, I don’t need to worry then? Or if a man corners me in a secluded spot, as long as he doesn’t “misgender” me, I’m perfectly safe?😂😂😂😂😂😂　　you are a funny one aren’t you?

I won’t lie I’m not bothered by most trans agenda and I never wasted my time with it because I often think it’s a made into a massive issue by feelding it with extra attention . Every trans person I go on to meet being a teen or a educated adult ( I do know a doctor and 2 lawyers that are trans ) share the same narrative of being either kids who truly struggled so being trans got them attention or narcissistic from day one who love nothing more but to talk about themselves , 2 of the younger ones I know are also neurodivergent for sure . Why people don’t accept being trans is potentially a mental heath issue is beyond me .

You're safe as long as the man calls you the correct pronoun.....

My DD is a gender non conforming lesbian.

Before she even knew she was lesbian, she wasnt "girly". And she was bullied for it. The most common taunt being "you must be a boy". Because girls cant like dinosaurs, or help their dad fix his motorbike, or play rugby, or wrar cargo shorts (or have short hair).

Its made her a very staunch feminist... she should be able to do what she likes, not have to do "girl" things.

At home she got the message she could be who she wants to be. But society was telling her the opposite. I can completely see how girls end up in this place as they are being told they arent doing things "right".