Inside the mind of a non-binary woman

I think virtually everyone thinks that no gender fits them, because gender is about grammar not about human bodies. That is why no-one had a gender until the mid 1990s. Not because we were non-binary but because gender had not been fantasised into existence.

We had, as we have, sex. Which is binary. A tiny number of people tried to 'change sex'. Which is impossible.

Well whatever makes them happy in the relationship but only mutually connected people who are like this will go into a relationship together.

For me, it sounds like too much hard work and unpredictable, will surely cause arguments after the honeymoon period.

I really don't mind/care about what gender anyone is or claims to be. Tell me your pronouns, I will respect them when talking about you because otherwise it's just us so 'you'.

However, when it becomes too complicated that's when I will get weary because I really have far more important, immediate and real issues to deal with in my life.
When someone is guiding me about pronouns when I've come out for a couple of drinks after visiting a loved one on end of life care, this is an issue I don't have the energy to deal with.
It may be important to you but to me all I see is another human, have a chat. I'm in a bad place, this was my respite time, I don't want to argue about offending you because I said a wrong pronoun.

This was just bizarre reading and it featured more than once. So, what, her ex would talk to her in the third person all the time or was he speaking to some imaginary friend in the same room? “Hi Fred, I’ve got to get the tea started because Dee and I are hungry now. I wonder what she would like. Shall I go and ask her?”

Seriously, when would he have had a need to use her pronouns when it was just the pair of them? Mind you seeing how most of this article was about pronouns, presumably she insisted on speaking about them at length whenever they were together. Instead of “say my name, say my name,” it was, “say they/them, say they/them.”

As for this bit in the article:
Gone were worries that a cisgender male partner would misgender me in the bedroom…

Errr, how? I’m assuming if there were multiple partners involved. “Oh yeah, she likes that.”😂 Surely if it was just her and the ex, they would have referred to each other by name?

Thank you for answering. It’s really interesting because I had the exact same thought in my late teens and early twenties about rejecting the ‘pink princess’ ideal being true feminism. I was a massive advocate against the pink/blue toy shops and clothing departments (particularly in supermarkets that are awash with blue, pink and some beige for the younger years) and swore when I had kids I’d bring them up in a world where nothing was off limits. I’ve since aged and had children and realised that there is no wrong or right way to be female.

I think we both want the same for our children and future generations - a world where women can be, or enjoy, whatever they want to without scorn or judgement.

Where we veer is that I believe no matter how you dress, what hobbies you have, beliefs you hold or other parts of you stop you being a woman, whereas you think there’s something important enough to make you no longer a woman but a man (in only societal terms, I think?).

Thank you @soupycustard! I read most of the article before giving up and reading the comments. I was continually thinking, “navel-gazing.” It was epitomised by this sentence:

Navigating my gender identity and sexuality has been an intertwined journey, with my queerness becoming more prevalent the more I delved into my gender.

For goodness’ sake. At one point Dee, the author, ponders on whether internalised homophobia had been a cause for why she used to say she found women attractive but couldn’t be in a relationship with one. Yet, Dee hasn’t joined the dots. That’s exactly what is going on to the present day. Some struggle to accept she was/is attracted to other women. Mental gymnastics.

That's very honest of you, thanks.

Truth is, being trans is a personal thing. It's just something you know you are.

And I am not trans so cannot describe it.

Some people know that the gender they were assigned at birth doesn't fit who they are. Some feel that no gender fits them, and feel.great relief from living as non-binary.

Being trans isn't cosplay. You can't talk or bully someone out of being trans, any more than you can if they're gay, or ace, bi or pan.

It's just who they are. And it matters so much that they'll put up with a soul-destroying amount of harassment, intimidation and violence to live as themselves. I think that should be respected.

You are managing to back up the impression given by the subject of this thread, that 'trans' is all about mentally unstable egotistical bores using the latest buzz term to bully the world abound them.

Of course you are baffled by gender enthusiasts trying to apply the grammatical terms 'masculine' and feminine' to people. They are a way of classifying words, not living beings. Corrupting and distorting language leads to confusion, that is what it is meant to do. Sometimes with sinister intent, see Sigusch and 'cis'.

Apologies for the numeration 😁 Was born daft. And I'm pretty tired.

ahh life of a carer. Sometimes awake, often half-asleep, always pushing on.

That's a great post Flirts.

The enormity and tragedy of what genderists have done to the young is off the scale. Their assault on safeguarding, their open messing with the minds of the young by pretending that a sex change is both possible and desirable is shameful.
I rarely criticise parents (walk a mile in our shoes and all that) but when someone repeatedly posts bad faith arguments, darvoes their way through threads, accuses posters desperate to protect children and young people of all manner of crimes, I reserve the right to call out all the bad faith arguments.

If being a boy rather than a girl isn't defined by the kind of body you've got ( it can't be, if people claim to "be" rather than just "wish they were", when they have the other kind of body) -

If it isn't liking and doing boyish rather than girlish things ( it can't be, because people gender-nonconform without repudiating their sex) -

What is left? What is the difference between a boy and a girl if it isn't either of those things?

This is where I always get stuck.

That's honestly a failure of imagination on your part. Gnc trans people exist, and are online. Trans women often go out without make-up and in trousers.

There are two separate issues here:

1. Dysphoria is eased when trans people are accepted for who they are, regardless of appearance. But in order to be accepted, they often feel forced to look more stereotypically masculine or feminine.

If they dress stereotypically they get accused of nonsense like 'womanface'.

If they don't, they aren't accepted as their gender.

1. Some trans people are gnc and sometimes dress to reflect that.

I'm sorry you don't think the kid 'stacks up' but he definitely exists.

Read more.

Anecdata, however tragic, is still anecdata. People can be foul to other people for all sorts of reasons. Kids can be foul to other kids.
You made a sweeping generalisation that you are unable to evidence.

"And if someone won't use my correct pronouns, or try to, in dont want them in my life"

Sounds like a handy get-out clause!

Every time I hear someone explain how NB they are it just seems to reinforce all the stereotypes that previous generations have literally spent decades trying to break. It seems quite regressive to me.
Wearing a dress with timberland boots? How does that prove or explain anything? Didn't we all do that in the 1990s?

People who are trans now are expressing something that exists in every society. There are always people who want to live as the opposite sex. From everything I read the size of that group in each society, the split between men annd women, and the cultural forces they are expressing fluctuate.

Yes, people who live outside sexual and gender boundaries are vulnerable. They are targets. Brianna Ghey, that poor person who was stabbed on their own doorstep by someone from a dating app, that lesbian couple who were attacked on a bus, all these things exist in the uk. But the most dangerous thing a woman can do is attempt to leave a relationship, isn’t it? However she is living, whoever she is living with.

I can’t, I won’t pretend that men and women aren’t who they are. I don’t wish any harm to anyone. I just wish that women could live the lives they want to live and be honest. If they really have to call it living as a transman, I wish that wasn’t the case but I see that it does satisfy something that they need.

Oh, get lost. I donated towards the funeral costs of a trans boy who killed himself partly because transphobia had ruined his life. He wrote about it in his suicide note. When his grief-stricken mum shared it, she was monstered online and her tormentors threatened to show up at the service.

My son was put through hell at school by people who treated him as subhuman. I know how incredibly lucky I am that he survived. Also what it took out of me to ensure it.

The evidence is online. Take a look at the comments under posts about The trans teen stabbed to death (in The US, yes). And about Brianna Ghey.

My son attended a vigil for her. Trans kid after trans kid were given microphones and all.asked the same thing: leave us alone.

In my case (experiences obviously differ), I just don't think there's a set way to be a woman. I'm still baffled by the idea of masculine and feminine, or presenting as either.

I had to fight against what other women expected me to be. But I've never had a plan, I'm just like this. I got called a man, obviously - but never wanted to be male, felt male or did steretypically male stuff.

Absolute irony is that I used to think rejecting the Pink Princess stereotype made me more of a feminist. My son, as a small child, made me realise how narrow that thinking was - of course a girl can embrace whatever they want, and be no less of a feminist. And then, after I learned this lesson, it turns out he's trans. Brilliant, honestly.

On further reflection I don't think you can make this assertion attack up in real life.

I can show you a lot of women who rarely or never wear a dress. Can you show me one female identifying trans person who rarely or never wears feminine clothes? Likewise I think you'd have to search long and hard to show me a male identify trans person wearing a dress.

Anti-trans violence is socially acceptable, after all. Their bodies are considered fair game for sexual assault. When they kill themselves or are murdered, people celebrate.

Evidence, for the UK, please

Oh good grief.

From an early age, I was completely confused by the idea of 'how to be a woman'. Women just are. There is no right or wrong way to be female.

I. Assumed. He. Was. A. Girl. Based. On. His. Appearance.

Turned. Out. He. Was. Trans.

And I raised him to know that women can be who they want, that he should reject stereotypes and not listen to anyone else. Same with his brothers, who arguably don't have anything approaching a stereotypically male dad.

I 'm sorry you don't want to hear this, but nothing I did made him trans. He doesn't fit your theory; no trans person does. Trans people are not created, they are born.

I didn't want him to be trans. I knew it'd put him in danger - and I was right. Mostly from people who are angry that trans people dare exist, and live as themselves. Anti-trans violence is socially acceptable, after all. Their bodies are considered fair game for sexual assault. When they kill themselves or are murdered, people celebrate. Do you really think their parents don't see all that?

So all you leave is how male or female you "feel".

And since if you are female you cannot know what it feels like to be male, and if you are male you cannot know what it feels like to be female, your whole pack of cards falls into a very untidy heap.

You are a GNC cis-woman, I think?

What does gender non-conforming mean in that instance? Particularly what does the ‘gender’ part mean?

Edit: I’m not suggesting this from a ‘trans’ perspective but asking what gender non-conforming means to you. Is it stereotypes? Is it something else?

It's more like:
Whatever clothes you prefer or however stereotypically masculine or feminine you present, you are either male or female. There's no need for words like trans, non-binary or, especially, 'cis', which is just pseudoscientific hooey.

Yes, of course that's so.

That's my point.

Being trans has nothing to do with what clothes you prefer, how stereotypically masculine or feminine you present, or who you sleep with.

And neither does being cis.

Girls are female, transgirls are male. Girls, boys, women, men, do not require a prefix.