Giggle v Tickle Friday 15th May 2pm AEST

Well theres a lot in this judgment worth further examination!

On the direct discrimination claim - Tickle brought a cross appeal on the basis that “knowledge of a person’s gender identity as (relevantly) a transgender man or transgender woman is a necessary element of establishing direct discrimination under s 5B(1) of the SDA”

Wowsers! That goes against the whole European Court principle that someone is trans independent of their appearance or stage of transition.

I don’t see how the state can insist you that you must see someone as a woman if that’s not their perception.

Am I reading this wrong? This is loony if I’m right

Australian women need to start flooding gay men's groups en masse - false beards, deep voices, the whole lot. Once it starts affecting the men, then they might start to take notice.

I do apologise for using the UK terms. I was meaning the highest court in the land.

Absolutely. Lesbians can't congregate if a man says they can't? Women can't shower and change away from men if a man says they can't?

The result is totally expected, but still infuriating and simply unjust. Sal is right that men are still men.

What I can't get out of my head is this quote:

Justice Bromwich said Ms Grover's argument that sex referred to a person's sex at birth conflicted with a "long history" of court decisions going back three decades which "establish that in its ordinary meaning, sex is changeable".

Really?? Three decades?? How? Buy in any case, judge, that flies in the face of millions of years of human history.

Aren't these people ashamed of themselves? And if not, why the hell not?

This is very rape culture adjacent.

Ah shite, I was so hoping she'd win!

That bloke Beth Ridgy and his non V neck top eh?

Oh fantastic @mb2512cat ! I really hope someone does!

What is gender-related appearance?

In the case, it was argued that Sall should have recognised he was a woman because he was wearing a V neck top.

Just to flag that Julia ‘I will not be lectured about sexism and misogyny’ Gillard is a guest speaker at the Hay Festival on May 25th. Perhaps an audience member could ask her about her amendment to the Australian Sex Discrimination Act and in the light of Giggle vs Tickle if it’s working out as she envisaged?

Christ! Just started reading this amd the court was using the term “cisgender” as a way to describe women FFS

I've seen his gender-related appearance.
I'm saying nothing more.

Isn't there something going on with ESB at the moment regarding a challenge to their changing room policy?

What I can’t fathom is how the Australian law allows this to happen

What is gender-related appearance?
And why is it protected when it’s so changeable

Here’s the judgment:

https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/full/2026/2026fcafc0064

And summary findings:

The declaration made on 5 September 2024 that the appellants engaged in unlawful indirect discrimination against the respondent on the ground of her gender identity contrary to s 5B(2) of the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (Cth) be set aside and in lieu thereof it be declared that:

The appellants, Ms Sally Grover and Giggle for Girls Pty Ltd, engaged in unlawful direct discrimination against the respondent, Ms Roxanne Tickle, on the ground of her gender identity, contrary to s 22 of the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (Cth), when read with s 5B(1) of that Act, by:

(a) excluding Ms Tickle from access to the Giggle App on the basis of her gender-related appearance;

(b) refusing to restore Ms Tickle’s access to the Giggle App on the basis of her gender-related appearance; and

(c) thereby treating Ms Tickle, who is a transgender woman, less favourably than a person designated female at birth seeking access to the Giggle App.

I think they must do because any further reporting will necessarily give the information, however much it's coded. And if they include a photo of him.... Dude doesn't even begin to look like a lady.

What a joke. How do they then explain WHY this "woman" was excluded from the app?

Off to read...

The problem with sunlight in this case is that the Australian mainstream media are reporting it as “woman excluded from women’s app”.

It relies on people twigging it’s actually a man.

sunlight is the best disinfectant-this story needs massive coverage

The expected result but still utterly grim for Sal. I just hope that this gets a decent amount of accurate coverage in Australia

Ireland is in the same boat. Our government snuck in a change in legalisation in 2015 with the Gender recognition act, equating 'sex' with 'gender'. Effectively Irish women have no rights in law to single sex spaces.
This technique was actually cited in the Dentons report as a way to change the law with minimum public knowledge or interference.
The report advises NGOs to “Tie your campaign to more popular reform
In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.” (emphasis added)..

We're going to need a test case that will go through the courts as well. Gutted for Sall G and the women of Australia..

Scarily, I think this might be the whole point of the exercise. If they can change laws to reflect a blatant lie, then what's to stop them taking further rights away under dubious claims?

That's why some of our GC lawyers say the GRA actually saved the UK. We kept sex and gender separate.
Sal said she knew this wouldn't be the end because, whatever the verdict, the other side would appeal, but it is gut-wrenching for us so must be far, far worse for her.

This is devastating, I’m so appalled. I was dreaming Sal had won and she was giving a great speech. I was so sure it was true when I woke up. Logged into X to find the worst news.

I’ve had very happy times in Australia when I was younger. Now I never want to go there again.

What a bloody awful place for women. Female sports will die a death - there is already a female football team with five male players. Teams who don’t want to play them for fear of injury are punished.
Women can’t exclude men from breastfeeding groups and breastfeeding advisors must facilitate child abuse by advising men who want to use babies to feed their fetish. Lesbians have no rights to exclude men.

So much more I don’t have the energy to list.

But as Sal has said. In a way not much has changed. These men are still men. Vile perverted men.