Town Vs Country and believing in GI.

What are the chances, eh?

What a nasty little comment.

"queers the pitch" is a well-known British saying. The meaning of 'queer' has changed over the last couple of hundred years.

Thanks, I know, I speak English. The word "queer" has multiple meanings, one of which remains a derogatory way to refer to LGBT+ people and that commenter used the word in the same sentence in which they were clearly intending to be derogatory about my trans friends which provides some unfortunate context. As I said, I hope it was not deliberate.

This is your original comment:

*I was reading the posts of one of our delightful ploppers, and they commented something like 'what world do you live in? The more I read, the more I wondered if they had ever spent time lambing (or similar). Or whether they were someone who had always lived in a town/city.

The fashion choices are all ones that fall away to nothing when you are checking your animals are OK, have water and forage during a long, wet, cold winter. You (regardless of your sex) need proper outdoor clothing for the weather.

The 'sex is bimodal' idea is just stupid when you are selecting Rams, having the vet scan pregnant ewes, and working hard when the ewes are lambing.
So, I'm wondering whether where you live (and what you do) has any impact on how beliveable gender identity ideology is to an individual?*

I admit I found your post quite hard to understand because it was so full of non-sequiturs but this is what I took from it:

• by "ploppers" you mean "person who doesn't agree with me" (rude, but ok)
• You wondered for some reason if this person who didn't agree with you had ever done any lambing or whether they lived in a town/city (never mind that the two aren't mutually exclusive, or that many rural people have never done any lambing either)
• You then talked about fashion choices. I'd love it if you could explain this one because it was baffling - how are the clothes one might need to wear when working with animals relevant to a belief in "gender ideology" or trans status or anything related? Do you think there's something in the wellies that would cause an allergy or something?
• I was further puzzled by this statement as a general stereotype of rural people that I don't find to be true, I know some very glam farmers, just because they wear appropriate clothes at work doesn't mean they don't ever dress up in other contexts. The person I know in the world who is most interested in fashion is my cousin who's a pig farmer.
• You then announced for some bizarre reason that the bimodality of sex is irrelevant when separating breeding stock - in fact it couldn't be more relevant to this activity.
• You wondered whether where you live has an impact on belief in "gender ideology". I assume you would include anyone who is trans in your bucket of people who believe in "gender ideology" which is why I inferred from this you thought there weren't any trans people in rural locations or industries. Admittedly, this is a tricky one - personally I don't actually think there is any such thing as "gender ideology", I think it's become a buzzword like "gay agenda" in the 90s intended to make the existence of a group of humans sound more sinister or organised than it actually is. But I accept that you believe there's such a thing, so perhaps you could explain what you meant by this category of people and who you'd include in it, if not trans people?

Don't be so coy re Khelif. Makes you sound very disingenuous indeed.
You're the one bringing gender non-conforming individuals in the group you know to make a point on this thread. Fair enough, but biology conforms and gender doesn't, and in the clash of sex based rights versus temperament...
Queering the pitch is not some kind of threat, why are you interpreting it this way?
In terms of a male dog that has its genitalia tucked away, it's owners bought it a pink body warmer, well, that visit to the vet now means a whole new wardrobe.
Unless you're making another point?

Given what we saw during Alison Bailey's hearing, I wonder if 'still work with animals' means a support hamster under the desk.

I'm not familiar enough with the intimacies of Imane Khelif's biology or life history to make an educated comment. Nor, I suspect, are you, and yet here you are commenting anyway.

Your cross-dressing farmer/vet friends are neither here not there

What a very rude way to stereotype some people you know nothing about and have never met. And they are indeed "here nor there" to the topic of this thread which was the OP's bizarre contention that trans people don't exist in the countryside or rural industries. It's much more relevant for me to bring them up than for you to start banging on about an Algerian boxer.

queers the pitch

Interesting choice of words there, I hope you didn't deliberately choose a word which could be interpreted as a slur in the context.

There's something glorious alright here, and it's your pure silliness.
You'll be telling us next Olympic boxer Imane Khelif is some sort of diverse, complex creature, a little girl to start, and then, whoops, those male genitalia are starting to show, plus the hormones that signify a male, strong enough to punch a female boxer very much harder than another female.
You gonna tell us Khelif is anything other than a male?
Your cross-dressing farmer/vet friends are neither here not there, unless you're trying to convince non binary or queer somehow queers the pitch re male and female binary.

Right, so what you've proved here is that quadrupeds don't always have four legs, well done. Unclear what your point is.

I doubt many vets open up a female animal and find she has got testes somewhere

You can doubt it all you want, I have seen this happen very recently in fact. And I'm not saying it makes them trans, I'm contesting the OP's point that working with animals means you must think sex is binary; my experience is the opposite, the more you learn about the natural world the more you learn there are exceptions to absolutely everything.

You can fall back on the usual GC technique of simply refusing to see any evidence that contradicts your worldview if you want, but meanwhile the world will continue to be gloriously complex and diverse.

In the village where I grew up there was a cross-dressing male farmer who "came out" as a woman. His wife left him and his children only have limited contact with him. So it does happen even in rural areas. The thrall of autogynephilia isn't limited to urbanite men. There are perverts everywhere.

I once delivered a lamb with 7 legs. Doesn't change the fact that sheep are quadrupeds.

I doubt many vets open up a female animal and find she has got testes somewhere - and if they did that wouldn't make them trans anything but the sufferer from a DSD which has nothing to do with gender ideology. As you don't need to 'open up' a male animal to chop its balls off I think you are telling a cock and b(a)ll story.

I think age has a lot to do with being pro-GI. Older women (alas, that includes me) do not believe this guff. Being careful here but I am in a situation where there trans is very much accepted. Conversation in cafeteria one lunch time outed the 'wrong' pronouns from a colleague and our main reaction was 'saying that has got people sacked'. So most of us keep our heads down. We are town-ish, living in a city with many feeder villages most of which are townee populated these days, but in many ways do not follow the mainstream.

Yes to this except that human height is an attribute that most assume is bimodal but isn't. There is a peak in the male distribution and a peak in the female, but they are close enough that when combined there is one single peak, not two. If the average male/female height difference was a little bigger you'd get a bimodal distribution.

What a peculiar thread to start. Trans people exist in all areas and walks of life. I’m trans and I grew up rurally on a farm and I still work with animals, I know many trans people the same, I’m part of a community of trans professionals who work with animals, including vets, farmers, scientists. I’ve got no idea why you think wearing appropriate clothes for outdoor work would affect whether someone is trans or not. This suggests a very facile understanding of what it means to be trans – it’s not about fashion choices. Besides which I’ve known plenty of rural people who are perfectly capable of dressing up if they want to, trans or not, no one’s waist deep in sheep all the time. Seems like you’re making some stereotypes about rural life as well as trans people tbh.

Considering how many castrations and spayings that small animal vets perform, you'd hope that they were a bit more resistant.

I’ve worked at a small animal vet – you’d be surprised how often pets come in for a routine spay/neuter and the vet opens them up to find their organs aren’t the ones they expected. The more you learn about biology, the more you learn that very little in life is strictly binary.

Can you imagine Dian Fossey or Jane Goodall researching 'gender identity in primates'?!

Jane Goodall was a vocal LGBT+ ally. She also described animals as "gendered beings".

Thanks for this.

Maybe, purely anecdotal personal local experience. I don't meet at the school gate, hospital waiting room, exercise class etc.

So human height is bimodal - a continuous distribution from tallest to shortest, with a male peak and a female peak within the range. But sex is binary - 2 separate categories and you're in one or the other.

Bimodal means 2 overlapping categories. [Edit] Or more exactly, a range of data that forms a single set but with 2 peaks. Not 2 separate categories.

Cassole, ‘bimodal’ means ‘two’, so in this case at least, isn’t that poster correct? Or were you referring to gender? (I haven’t read that thread.)

Sounds like a bubble to me. My experience is quite different! Some of the most GI people I know are living in the country. They have kids who’ve declared themselves to be trans, so no one can tell them anything otherwise…

I live in semi-rural Norfolk, having moved up from London (indeed, from the new Green fiefdom with Zoe G as mayor).
Everyone, and I mean everyone local knows that GI is magical thinking, a bust.
The only ones who are Righter On than Right On are women who've moved from London or Cambridge to work from home, and maintain their modern city attitudes supporting GI.
It's an absolute schism.

😂

Although you mean the 4 legged variety because the West is awash with millions of the 2 legged variety.

I like to think I have the logical ability, critical thinking, and annoying insistance on constantly asking why, to have avoided falling for genderwoo regardless of circumstance. But I can't deny the possibility that spending formative years taking the testicles off one type of sheep and sticking an arm up the other, and having to choose which goats and cattle to milk, may have had some influence.