Gender differences in crime and pondering the reasons

But is that inherent or is it socialization that people seem to trust men more, will believe what a man says, will listen to men more, are less likely to say no to a pushy man. More likely to think a pushy woman is just uppity. In other words does it come down to how men and women are viewed under patriarchy.

Ok, you've made a good point actually

Most sales people are women, personal shoppers, beauty counters, pharmacies, jewellery, clothes shops, estate agents. They just sell different things.

Attitude to risk. Men tend to drive faster. They tend to do more dangerous activities/hobbies. This will cross over into crime.

Women are apparently also more loss-adverse - so are more cautious.

Men are more confident in their abilities (a man will apply for a job when he has very few of the stated requirements, women won’t apply even if they have 90% as they feel under qualified). So they take more risk. You see this even when learning a new skill or sport - the techniques are different even from age 7/8. A boy goes for goal even if someone else is in a better position. A girl will pass even if she’s in a prime spot to score. (No not all girls/boys - but my kids do 6 sports and it’s a very common theme - see the same when learning a new musical score - girls cautious / boys get stuck in and make numerous mistakes away until they get it)

I do think some women struggle to even recognise men are happy to take risks that they wouldn’t contemplate doing. Base jumping, free climbing, etc

No I'm not saying that precisely just that I think when it involves business and selling things there's a difference between the sexes (in general)

Partly but there is a massive socioeconomic aspect. I've known a few women in my life who have been in prison for violent crimes. And they were often repeat offenders

Yes, women are famously bad at networking and talking to people.

It's highly unlikely though. Safeguarding isn't just about picking up the kind of thing you mentioned, there are indicators of abuse that are picked up when the parents are abusive that would be picked up if it was nursery staff.

Yes. Drug dealing (it seems to me, I have no first-hand experience) comes with a high risk not just from addicts but from other drug dealers - you may well face violence from others who want to take your territory or enforce theirs. Men have an obvious advantage here.

If Aunty Mildred suffocates her husband, that has to be seen within the context of patriarchy - why does she not just divorce him? Because she has been abused and controlled for decades? Because she has spent a lifetime leaving the 'money side of things' up to him and doesn't think she can get a fair divorce settlement? Because being an innocent widow is so much more socially acceptable than being a divorcee?

Yeah that is true but the dealer does also generally have to network and talk to a lot of people they are running a business after all. Not that women aren't capable of these things but I do think men tend to be more business- minded. Or used to be anyway. I am aware that the genders are becoming more similar to a large extent.

I did use to do sales. I never sold a thing I was terrible at it, but they kept me on anyway for someone reason. There was one woman in the office who was really good at it, but most of the high achievers making all the money were men

A random thought, but this made me think of how some studies have found a (weak) inverse correlation between murder and suicide. Regions with high murder rates often tend towards lower suicide rates, and vice versa, as if some regions internalise their unhappiness and disenfranchisement, and some externalise it.

This makes me wonder if, thanks to socialisation, men generally externalise their disenfranchisement and unhappiness by inflicting it on others, and women internalise it through inflicting it on themselves.

Ultimately though, I think that the effect of testosterone on the development of the brain as a foetus and baby probably has an immense impact - for instance, men are overwhelmingly the sex to have paraphilias, and not women. Women aren't just hiding their paraphilias, they just don't have them to the same extent.

I think all humans have the capability for violence and cruelty but we don't remove 'bad' men from society so there's no real incentive for them to change their behaviour. They are enabled and become entitled to express themselves and act however they wish. There are offences that have been committed by men in vast, vast numbers and they were presented as a laugh or banter all through society.

Women though generally fear a different kind of removal from society ie being ostracised, and that socialisation is strong. The crimes woman do commit in more numbers have very specific drivers.

I don't think women in general are nearly as sexually motivated as men.
They won't be sexually abusing the children. They may be verbally or emotionally cruel though.
I have seen female care workers in residential homes for adults with disabilities be unbelievably neglectful and cruel, then brush it off with the comment that the resident was just "attention seeking", which is a catch-all phrase to justify not doing your job as a carer.

I’m not sure how much of a sales pitch drugs need either. I thought they sold themselves.

I think it’s the risks and rewards associated with drug dealing are higher than Avon sales. Less likely to get stabbed delivering Skin So Soft.
And the tribalism of being in a gang heirarchy, that might be the same with Avon though lol.

Love this chat. The Power by Naomi Alderman explores some of these themes in a fictional setting, and from what I can remember (read it with my bookgroup years ago) the conclusion is more or less that if women had some kind of power advantage over men, we'd become just as bad. Not exactly a new idea; we've all read Animal Farm. However, I would love to read some kind of murder mystery book where the premise is that women are just as bad as men, we're just much better at getting away with it. Older women often talk about feeling invisible so that could be part of it; an older lady goes on a Dexter-style rampage, murdering all the most offensive and awful men on the planet and they're all just put down to natural causes. She gradually admits her crimes to her nearest and dearest who all assume she is developing dementia. In the end she confesses in a sky-written message and still nobody believes her so she just continues with her vengeful public service in peace. Cannot wait to read that.

I think a lot of it is socialisation. Criminal behaviour often starts in childhood or teen years (although not necessarily criminal at that stage) and then a parent excuses it as “boys will be boys”. That tells them that there are limited consequences for their shit behaviour and gives them no reason to stop.

Even in childhood more is expected of girls, at home and in school. Boys have later curfews because it’s expected (wrongly) that they’re safer after dark.

Agree with scout and also claws on the effects of being the stronger sex in our patriarchal society.

I would add that a further influence linked to both the above is developmental. Also a generalisation, but as mammals, we are doomed to raise the children suited to our environments. When our environments are brutal, our children will grow up ready to continue the fight/ perpetuate the cruelty/ be emotionally cut off in order to endure the pain. Examples of brutal environments could be growing up in a war zone, growing up in poverty, or attending a private school with a bullying culture. The responses (again, massively generalised) to these environments are necessarily going to be different for the two sexes because underneath the complexity of our lives we are also still mammals engaged in sexual reproduction and continuation of our species.

Interesting AI rabbit hole I have gone down

In humans, the link between testosterone and outward physical aggression is much weaker in women than in men. Dominance vs. Aggression: Research suggests that in women, high testosterone is more closely linked to dominance (the drive for status) than to aggression (the intent to harm). A study from the University of Chicago found that women with higher testosterone were significantly more likely to choose "high-stakes" careers in finance, not because they were violent, but because they had a higher appetite for financial risk.The "Pro-social" Effect: Surprisingly, some studies (like those from the University of Lübeck) have shown that administering testosterone to women can actually make them more fair in bargaining games. It seems to heighten the desire for status; if the "best" way to get status in a group is to be seen as fair and competent, testosterone can actually promote pro-social behavior. The Provocation Factor: Testosterone doesn't usually create aggression out of thin air. Instead, it acts as a potentiator. If a woman is provoked or her status is threatened, higher testosterone can lead to a more intense "counter-strike" response, but it rarely triggers unprovoked violence.

Combat Sports and Athletics
In the world of professional sports, some female athletes have historically used testosterone (or its precursors) not just for the muscle-building properties, but for the "killer instinct"—the psychological drive to dominate an opponent.

Yes there is that I guess

When my ex started taking testosterone for body building, he changed mentally - he became colder and crueler.

You can't take testosterone out of it. It doesn't just have physical affects (BTW, I doubt your Aunty Mildred could suffocate her husband with a pillow - unless he's already decrepit - men maintain a significant strength advantage over women into old age)

By the same token, you can't take size out of it - men can't imaging being in a world where 50% of the adults around them are 1/5th larger, and capable of killing them with their bare hands - whereas that's the world that women live in, so of course it has an effect on behaviour.