Biggus Titus of Oxford University

And I don't have a rose-tinted view of youth being a guarantee of a person not being an exploiter, a bully, or an abuser. A high status 19 year old who has never been challenged in his or her life is not a joy to be with.

Indeed @DeanElderberry another story that most unis heard about at Warwick …

https://theboar.org/2025/06/tick-box-training-warwicks-handling-of-sexual-misconduct-cases-continues-to-fail-students-seven-years-on/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-48405725

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48930792

All universities need to do better on protecting young females.

Edited to add one more tragic story: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-686194

Angus Milligan, 21, of Edinburgh, admitted choking and slapping Glasgow student Emily Drouet, 18, at halls of residence in Aberdeen.

Angus Milligan admitted choking and slapping Emily Drouet, 18, at halls of residence in Aberdeen in 2016. Law student Ms Drouet was found dead several days later. She had committed suicide. Milligan admitted assault and threatening behaviour and was sentenced to community service. Fiona Drouet said: "Angus Milligan has been unmasked as a vicious abuser who stole our daughter's life. He preyed on Emily's innocence and kindness and continues to lie about it, trying to destroy her reputation."

Scotland naturally with his ‘community service’.

Just to say that those statistics are appalling, I'm very sorry to hear you were part of them and I think you are right. You're not the first person abused as a child I have heard draw a link between that and being drawn into BDSM, though I think it's often brushed aside.

For some reason it seems to be considered more important to never risk anyone who is into BDSM feeling "shamed" (or, frankly, anything less than enthusiastically celebrated) than to explore whether it has a negative effect on vulnerable people and, if so, the scale of that.

They'll get that benefit in the Archaeology society, the Film society, the Physics society. Also in the students' union that used to be an entry ticket into a job in television. Just as the Spanish society was an entry ticket into really weird Catholic subculture - where Opus Dei was seen as bit too soft and liberal. I've heard nasty stuff about evangelic protestant university societies too. The young are vulnerable to pressures and bullying and exploitation, they don't need to be in a sex society.

And I don't have a rose-tinted view of youth being a guarantee of a person not being an exploiter, a bully, or an abuser. A high status 19 year old who has never been challenged in his or her life is not a joy to be with.

I think a mixture of university based and community based activities on offer is the ideal, but not always achievable.

One benefit of the uni clubs is they tend to be all people of a similar age as mature students are pretty rare overall. Which helps reduce some of the risk of older more experienced people preying on the first years. But also means the first years quickly become as experienced as anyone else there, join committees and get a taste of what it means to run and organise community groups. Essential skills for later life.

This thread really is a chilling inditement of how universities have become places where sexually disordered adults are able to indulge their fetishes and promote niche sexual practices at 18 plus year olds. Young adults, just out of school, in a new environment where the allegedly trusted and responsible adults feel quite comfortable in promoting BDSM, prostitution and the rights of staff to display sexual practices in the work place.

What a world we've created for young people.

I'm glad your experience was at a remove, and that you were able to do something for those poor young women.

As you say, the young need protection. People who deliberately transgress traditional sex-adjacent rules of social decorum are massive red flags.

Many thanks @DeanElderberry and to everyone behind supportive (thank you) but I realise how my phrasing was confusing!

By saying "I had", I meant that I had a father of a patient whose care I was involved with. To clarify, that experience was not mine. I was involved in a professional capacity with one of the daughters. Conversations with the father were on a professional level. His daughter kept triggering a diabetic crisis in order to get admitted to hospital and eventually the reason why she was doing this came to light.

Reiterating the need for responsible adults to be responsible and protect young people.

Edited to add that I still completely disagree with you @Gerri1992 and I’m not saying that you personally are unsafe. But I am saying that you don’t seem to understand safeguarding or duty of care for university students.

I have always found the British university system really odd, in that people are encouraged to go to universities far from home and then not associate with the new places that are living in or near, but to do everything in the university. That hangover from a town and gown division.

It they want to do sex classes, or flower arranging, or ballroom dancing, or toastmasters, they should do it in the nearest town, with people working in and studying in a range of places. University for studying and broadening the academic mind, the world for learning about the world. And if possible they should do a job of work to defray their expenses.

I'm really sorry that happened to you. It shouldn't have and it is horrifying that it did.

When I started commenting on this, it was about a rope tying group which only seems to me a small step beyond the Ann Summers parties with furry handcuffs that I saw in at uni in the 90s. Somehow that has mutated into me being pro full on BDSM with kids, which is a horrible read into what Ive said, plus a disgusting insinuation that I am not safe around young people.

I don't think restricting adults from learning about legal things that interest them is a good idea. Safeguard children, absolutely yes, but there is a point where you have to trust the new adults to practise their own skills at saying no and making good choices. If we don't do it at university, then when?

(I am assuming all these groups are just meeting up in public university places and talking about stuff, and that it isn't compulsory for anyone to go. Possibly I'm a bit too naive, but surely aren't actually organising mass orgies in university student unions)

I'm very sorry you experienced that, @DrBlackbird, and sorry if my post was triggering. Do you want me to ask for it to be removed?

Back to some people being so privileged they can't imagine what life is for others. And back to the need for the establishment systems - legal, educational, police - to protect those dependent on them.

Don't be ridiculous. It's perfectly clear what my point was.

I remember people reacting the same way about the Bristol massage society Reacting what way @Gerri1992? Your subtext seems to be that some people just want to learn BDSM. Perhaps they do, but a university society is not the place and why would you want it to be? Truly I hope you don’t hold a position responsible for young people.

I’m not talking about being aghast at Elvis Presley shaking his hips whilst I clutch my pearls. I’m pointing to the duty of care we have towards young impressionable adults. Many parents want it to be enshrined in law.

Please don’t read further if you don’t want to be horrified and disgusted. Or perhaps reminded

Years ago, I had a sexually abusive father who spoke about the difference between how his two DDs orgasmed. Yes, he did go to jail. But unbelievable how he saw nothing wrong with sexually abusing both daughters because he saw them as experiencing ‘sexual pleasure’. The point is how pleasure is used to transgress young people boundaries. We all ought to safeguard our young people. Normalising fetishising is not progressive.

God, I just despair of (some) so called liberals.

Which brings me back to Mr Menno's astute questioning wrt motive. He is not only a man, he's a gay man, and may have his own reasons for his insight. In Ireland, young gay men and boys were particularly vulnerable to clerical sexual abuse, specifically because they craved love and attention from men.

See also Katriona O'Sullivan's observation that her abuser was able to grab a pleasure response from her body even as she rejected his actions. And that that messed her up even more. We've read about the way the victims of the rape gangs were groomed.

Young people starting university need protection from creeps, not institutional sponsorship of creeps.

Thank you, DrBlackbird. Well said.

I wanted to add previously abused young people to your list of those who would be especially vulnerable to activities like the BDSM Society. I was sexually and physically abused as a child. I probably would have joined in an instant because I was trying to understand my earlier abuse. I probably also would have been extremely vulnerable to manipulation by unscrupulous men (or women). It's very common for people who were abused to re-enact similar dynamics to try to understand their abuse.

15% of girls in the UK experience child sexual abuse. 5% of boys do.
https://plymouthscb.co.uk/understanding-the-scale-nature-of-csa/

I'd guess that those who had experienced physical or emotional abuse might be similarly drawn to activities such as this. 16.5% of children have experienced physical abuse and 22.7% have experienced emotional abuse.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/abuseduringchildhoodinenglandandwales/march2024

I've been thinking about the clubs and societies thing, and remembering my own youth, and feel the old fashioned idea of the University having limited societies linked to subjects, some sports, and some cultural stuff - the film society was great, I got to see an arty-farty subtitled film every week and never need to watch another as long as I live.

But specifically, activities to be accessed in groups and open to the public.

If there is a need for recommendations to other things for physical or mental health reasons do that through the college doctors.

Victory of a man with tits then I guess 😂

Just realised (never had before, and googled to check...)

Etymology. The name “Andronicus” has origins in both Greek and Latin. In Greek, “Andronicus” ( Ανδρόνικος ) is derived from the elements “andros” (ἀνδρός), meaning “of a man,” and “nikē” (νίκη), meaning “victory.” So, the name Andronicus carries the meaning of “victory of a man” or “conqueror of men. “

Cool!

I remember people reacting the same way about the Bristol massage society (won't it just be full of creepy men trying to touch girls, older people pressuring younger people to stuff they are uncomfortable with).
That society solved it very easily by having people pair up with someone they knew and encouraging the spare men to pair up with each other. That quickly sorted those who wanted to learn from the other sort. I'm sure lots of people were using the skills they learnt for sex, but some people just liked learning about it.

Tittus Andronicus

And AI estimates:
~130,000–150,000 alcohol-related deaths in England and Wales, 1993–2013 (ONS definition)

Weren't there similar passionate arguments that lead to poppers (Amyl Nitrate etc.) being excluded from the 'legal highs' ban?

Poppers 'not part of legal highs ban' - BBC News

Tory MP Crispin Blunt 'outs himself' as popper user - BBC News

From the first article

The council's guidance is contained in a letter which also sets out the harms linked to the use of poppers.
It says there were 11 deaths related to poppers in England and Wales from 1993 to 2013.

My memory is that, at the time, some members of staff pushed back claiming that having an affair with your tutor was part of the Oxford experience - sadly I can't find the reference.

Hansard has been a handy reference for me for all things toilet. In 2003, sexual activity in a toilet that the public, or a section of the public, have access to, was made an offence. It was passionately argued that this was discrimatory against men. Who would have thought legal sex in toilets was something to stand up for? No pun intended!

May I please point out that he’s Bigus Tittus?

Titus was a Roman Emperor, for a brief while, and pretty good, all things considered.

It’s a “hell, no” from me too.

With respect, positioning a Fetish Society as ‘experimenting with a new activity’ sounds extremely naive. Or sounds exactly like the man who proposed the society in the first place.

During welcome week, there are posters and society stands encouraging first year students (17 and 18 years old) to come and try it out. International students from protected societies. Vulnerable students with special educational needs. Do you really not know any young people who get talked into / try new activities that they really don’t want to do but feel pressured into for one reason or another and then feel terrible about themselves afterwards?

Sometimes with permanent impacts. I’ve known of students dying from alcohol poisoning playing drinking games on campus. We already have a surge in young men thinking rape is not really rape even where young women can’t consent and anal tears are the single biggest cause of young female students seeking care from college health centres in the US. Those might have been experimenting with new activities to their detriment.

Our young students might not have the language for it, but once in the room, instinctively they’ll know the person/people running it are getting a sexual thrill from having these young girls in positions of submission. The heady combined thrill of dominance and sex played out in full view getting to tie up v young women. Encouraging both young men and young women to think this is normal and messing with their head’s should not be university sanctioned.

A huge abrogation of duty of care in my opinion.