Biggus Titus of Oxford University

As I understand it, phobia is an irrational fear. A woman's fear of a man displaying aberrant sexual fetishistic behaviour is not irrational.

My sister had some work done for by a builder subcontracted by her regular builder. It transpired later that he was seriously dangerous and she asked if there had been anything which indicated he was problematic, and whether he should have been placed with a woman alone. The workers said that he had a more extreme interest in porn than usual. But just builder stuff only more so. This is relevant by comparison with the remarks about women exposed to porn in the work place above.
How does anyone know whether anyone with porny imclinations is another Fred West?
Transphobia contains within its word that it is an extreme fear, like arachnophobia or agarophobia, Why should a person be considered guilty of fault for feeling uneasy about someone who presents in a peculiar way?
My sister, who usually felt able to pop out to the shop leaving her children with trades, always took the boys when he was there. We are given ick for a reason.

I found it interesting that Mr Menno was more concerned with the motivation, specifically the extent to which it was sexual, that Tanya de Grunwald was. She was exploring the legal position for employers.

He has more insight into the darkness of some men's sex drive.

Absolutely - there's a parallel with lavatories & changing rooms.

I am old enough to have seen people justify not employing women because there were "no facilities." The provision of adequate and safe lavatory, washing, and changing facilities for women is an historic battle.

Seems like it still is. Plus ça change

(I'm also old enough to have been asked in an interview for a high-flying civil service job about what would happen when I had a family!)

Absolutely. There's little difference between these people and the Victorian gentlemen who saw women as possessions, having no agency, no right to speak and mere objects to be subject to their sexual and other demands. There to be passive in the face of all sorts of indignities.

I never would have believed society could regress so far backwards. It just shows how inadequate so many politicians and leaders are that they can be bought by these simplistic fantasies that displaying a sexual fetish in the work place is OK.

Exactly. Everything goes in cycles. The current generation in the workplace have (mostly) only known the results of women’s lib and forgotten what was hard won. And how ghastly the men of that time behaved - so to them this is all mysteriously new… when it’s just same old shit dressed up in modern style. We need to keep reminding of past problems to illustrate this cycle so we don’t get caught out in future

As we've seen been lectured to above, the Righteous are not regressive: they're vewy vewy super-educated, socially sophisticated, intellectually agile and hyperflexible... and most importantly, really with-it-trendy-bang-up-to-date COOL.

Oh, how they would hate to be called "regressive"! But they are.

That was a good listen. And yes to the observation that back in the day young women workers (like me) were subjected to naked porn photos of women in countless workplaces, newspapers etc. We thought society had grown up a bit but men like this really are dragging us back to those days.
They and their supporters are so bloody regressive.

What I really like about their conversation is how reasonable they both are. And how respectful & compassionate of people who are - really - actually weirdos.

It was fascinating the bit where Tanya said she'd put a comment on Biggus Titus's Linked in asking if anyone ever comments on his dress (meaning the big plastic tits to be clear) and he just deleted her comment. I mean he's dressing in a way which screams 'look at me' - enormous fake breasts - and yet isn't happy to be questioned about it mildly by an HR expert.

Thanks for posting - excellent discussion. Sanity does seem to have left some workplaces and hopefully can make its way back soon. Such a great comment made about how having a topless picture on the wall wasn't considered harrassment previously, but is now better understood. These prosthetic breasts are the topless calenders of the 2020s - it's clearly going to be upsetting for women in the workplace even if there are many rushing to fawn and placate.

I just watched this. Just brilliant. I love Menno's reaction - he's just laughing in disbelief at the end that they can actually be discussing this. How can this be the world we live in where bringing a fetish to work is accepted?

It's worth watching/ listening to Tanya de Grunwald on the more general issues in the workplace raised by this sexual harasser (yes, I think his wearing of gross comedy plastic breasts in the workplace is sexual harassment) - there's a lovely YouTube video discussion with Mr Menno - they're both so calm, sane & compassionate - so refreshing.

And it would mean they'd have to grow a spine and deal with the issue.

One thing that's missing here is the Uni of Oxford trying to find out how this man's students feel, honestly. They know if they speak up they'll receive the Dr North treatment aka witch hunt for sex realist views.

At the very least they should be doing an anonymous survey. But they won't of course because it doesn't take an academic to know that many students will find this offensive.

The women in the workplace can claim sex discrimination I think - the Uni is creating a hostile and degrading environment for them where they are essentially being harassed. If you see Akua R's tweet upthread it explains how this would work in law. They are more affected by this than men, it is their specific sex-characteristic that is being mocked by a man wearing a prosthetic pornified version.

It's misogyny in action and it's also normalising sexual dress in the workplace.

I don't think under the EA2010 a workplace can just have a code of dress that is discriminatory to women.

If a woman wore giant plastic fake breasts over her actual breasts (not sure why she would, but....), do you think she would get away with that in the workplace? Also, does he still wear them in the lab?

There is a big gap between "acceptable in a workplace" and illegal.
I don't think there is any UK criminal law that would hit this. If the workplace or someone in it objected to it and he persisted, then maybe... But they could just change their HR/codes of dress as an easier route.
Approaching this from HR/workplace rules, or harassment complaints from students is likely to be more successful then trying for criminal.
OTOH, if the college workplace is content with this - given their lack of action on it, we have to assume they are - there isn't a clear way to prevent him doing this.

My post was in response to the (true) statement that breasts are not genitals.

I still think it would be a challenge to claim this is criminally illegal under UK law. Public indecency prosecutions are primarily public sex, masturbation or urination.

Correct - but just because something is not covered by laws now, does not mean it will not be included in future. These plastic titties are ghastly and it is horrible to think what the female colleagues are having to endure. Such an unpleasant and degrading atmosphere. Oxford Uni need to sort this before they are on the wrong end of a tribunal

Yes I was thinking that part was a stretch but what about the ASB?
If the plastic boobs are OK, will it be fine if all the female staff at Oxford Uni to turn up with plastic strap ons clearly visible over their clothing?