No rape took place outside Epsom church, claim police

people of British origin were still the majority in London. Our country has changed so much in the last few years that they are now a minority.

This piqued my curiosilty, @CornishDaughteroftheDawn. Turns out British people aren't a minority in London, though the increasing diversity of the UK and London in particular is very interesting.

With no apologies for the Google summary -

Key Nationality and Birthplace Findings (2021 Census):

• UK-Born: 5.2 million residents (59%) were born in the UK.
• An additional 96,566 (1.1%) are Irish.
• Foreign-Born: Roughly 3.6 million residents were born outside the UK.
• Top Non-UK Birthplaces: India (323,000), Romania (176,000), and Poland (149,000) are the most common countries of birth for non-UK born residents.
• European Growth: "Other White" groups (including Polish and Romanian) grew significantly, with nearly 1.29 million residents (15%) identifying as such.

Ethnic Breakdown:

• White: 53.8% (including 36.8% White British, 14.6% Other White).
• Asian: 20.7% (with 7.0% Indian, 3.7% Bangladeshi, and 1.7% Chinese).
• Black: 13.5% (with 7.9% Black African).
• Mixed: 5.7%.
• Other: 6.3%

I'm not convinced by your reasoning. The data does not show that 82% of gang rapes in London were perpetrated by foreign nationals.

This means that men of British origin are unfairly maligned by having the vast number of crimes committed by recent British nationals of say, Pakistani origin attributed as if they were of their group.

They're not recent immigrants particularly. Some are but many were raised in the UK and quite a few are 2nd generation.

It's part of the process of assessing their asylum claims. They've been granted asylum and placed in the care of the local authority as looked after children.

I'm not sure I'd call it good or not. I think they need better data to get an irrefutable picture.

Anecdotally the three times I've been sexually assaulted twice were on public transport in broad daylight by men who seemed foreign, definitely not a culturally British background. The third time was a white British guy in a night club. I can well believe that it is primarily men of certain origins who are perpetrating assaults. Maybe not primarily but definitely disproportionate to their numbers in society. They need to collect the data to back that up but never will as it goes against the agenda.

But you started off with this - There is a bloke who, in my opinion, is a massive grifter - soliciting donations ‘for his work’ etc; he’s been all over this in a rather worrying way, I’d say inflammatory. He posts as JAOC and purports to be an ‘investigator’. Very worrying when external agitators get involved to the extent he has

You accused him of being a grifter, inflammatory and an agitator and have concerns about his involvement. That seems like you are a bit invested but have nothing concrete on which to base that judgement. Could he also just be a concerned man trying to pull together a way of helping and raising a campaign to try and get the government to listen?

Many people are getting increasingly unhappy with the governments handling of the whole immigration issue and tensions like this will only increase. That is the fault of the government and authorities, not this fabled ‘right wing’ (basically anyone concerned about the changes being made to our country without our consent) that is conveniently blamed in an attempt to silence us. The government are not listening and we need to find ways to get them to listen.

Yes, I explained my reasoning again in my last post.

It's worth noting that nationality is not the same as ethnicity. A lot (most?) of the Pakistani men in the rape gangs in northern towns are UK nationals.

Agreed. While the figures I showed above are just for the Metropolitan police area (!), it is clear that men who have recently acquired British citizenship and commit crimes will inflate the number of crimes attributed to ‘British nationals’. This means that men of British origin are unfairly maligned by having the vast number of crimes committed by recent British nationals of say, Pakistani origin attributed as if they were of their group.

The extent to which it affects the figures is unclear.

In the same vein, it is also worth considering that in the time period 2010-18 I think people of British origin were still the majority in London. Our country has changed so much in the last few years that they are now a minority. It would be interesting to see the nationality proportions in a new set of gang rape figures looks like.

As I explained to a pp earlier, the police establish the identity of a suspect when charging them with a crime. This is standard procedure. They also check immigration status. So they will reliably be able to establish when they are charging a British national.

It is obviously less straightforward to establish the nationality of a foreign criminal especially if they have destroyed their documentation. Therefore the vast majority of unknown nationality will not be British.

This is good news surely?

Do you have evidence for that? How does the age dispute process work and how long does it take?

You don’t have to agree with me, I’m just answering your question. He’s easy to find on FB and he has a website; I’m not invested, just giving my opinion on someone who was involved with helping recruit support for the protest.

i think most people are good hearted and well intentioned; I don’t like to see manipulation for money (which is my opinion of this chaps motives).

no issue with anyone who supports his endeavours. I am no apologist for rapists or nonces whatever they spring from.

Yes, it's not true to say that 82% of gang rapes were perpetrated by foreign nationals. That figure is foreign nationals plus all perpetrators whose nationality was not known or recorded.

Of the 1864 perpetrators whose nationality was known and recorded:

72% were UK nationals
28% were foreign nationals

I also noticed USSR as a nationality on there...

They'll be people who came from USSR and settled but never went for British citizenship. USSR broke up but they don't have citizenship of any of the new countries.

It's worth noting that nationality is not the same as ethnicity. A lot (most?) of the Pakistani men in the rape gangs in northern towns are UK nationals.

Yes, this is an issue but it's not the same issue.

All of the group we are talking about have already been accepted as children by the courts.

He’s not from the area.

I don’t feel like that’s an issue in itself.

He talked in a v patriarchal way about how if the victims PARENTS got in touch he would help.
I took that to mean that he thought the victim might not want to speak to anyone so he was reaching out to her parents to offer help.

He has sent a massive document to the cops and loads of others (last week) which I have seen, full of assumptions and demands to the cops to release all the cctv to him

Can you share this document please? Without seeing the content it’s hard to know what the problem with it is.

I’m not seeing anything ‘agitating’ or ‘inflammatory’ in what you describe. What else do you have?

Yes your backside might be feeling a little warm. Since when has Starmer been like a dictator? What rubbish.
Look across the Atlantic at the Mango Mussolini. He’s pretty much a dictator and the US democracy is failing.
I am guessing you’re Reform or Restore.

Exactly

Yaxley Lennon doesn't give a flying fu* about rapists. But when you get to the other side of the coin, neither do The Guardian and other liberal outfits. They simply have an agenda.

So very true. They really think people are stupid. We're not.

Anyone who posts in this way is always misogynistic to their core and doesn't give a shit about girls being raped. If the only way someone's not 'right wing' is by not caring about child rape / paedophilia then I guess I'm 'right wing'.

Even if in this case the alleged rape didn't happen, that still doesn't balance out the vastly greater number of rapes - including of children - that happen and the perpetrators get away with it.

And because of that, it's not surprising if some people are feeling a bit angry when the very police force that sheltered a paedophile rapist seems to be a bit cagey about giving out information.

The police could have handled this so much better than they did.

I was once walking home on my own in a foreign country on an unlit country road and a carful of 4 blokes pulled up and asked me to get inside. My instincts took over and I ran off and hid in a maize field at the side of the road. One of them got out and briefly searched but they decided it wasn't worth the trouble and gave up. Lucky the maize plants were high and gave good cover. Yet, according to various posters on here, I should have just got in that car and not expected anything to happen. They would have raped me and dumped me on the road somewhere and would have gotten away with it as it was back in the day.

Possibly. With his history he should never have been given the warrant card he used to abduct Sarah. We hope lessons have been learned, though the treatment of women at Sarah's vigil was a little heavy handed.
https://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/inquiry-finds-major-police-failings-to-stop-known-perpetrator-wayne-couzens/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60707646

I am not blaming her for putting her life in danger. I would willingly put my life in danger every day of the week. I would go to Iran tomorrow to prove my life is not in danger just to put two fingers up at em. I'd also walk nude through a dark alley in a dodgy area of London. Fuck em. I'd walk around London with my bag unzipped and have my phone out on the street everywhere. Fuck em. I'll walk around with my Rolex watch. Fuck em. They're not gonna defeat me.

Let us not forget that one of their own (I won't mention his name as he is so vile) was tracked down and caught and prosecuted for the murder of Sarah Everard. The police have moved on a lot since 15, 20 or 30 years ago.

Because we are intelligent enough to understand that both things can be true?

My mum was a horrible abusive parent because she said never get into a car with a strange man. Wow! Should have been done for child abuse!

I am a horrible friend for saying don't take uneccessary risks. How about if your friend is about to go off to Iran and you say, not a good idea.

On both occasions, the rapists were orosecuted so the police did their jobs.