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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can't believe I'm writing this, but disappointed in JK today

659 replies

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 21:22

I know she is just one person but her tweets today are really undermining the whole GC argument.

Link: https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/2046948644373274709

'Nothing's changed. I was being honest about how I feel about an individual trans woman I know, who was a gay man pre-transition, and who I met for the first time post-transition. Objectively speaking, she has physical characteristics that make it fairly obvious she wasn't born female, but she's a gentle, funny person I've never referred to as anything other than 'she' and 'her'. I find it perfectly easy to reconcile my fond feelings towards her, and my experience of her as someone with very female-coded energy, with a belief that she hasn't literally changed sex (and incidentally, she doesn't believe she's literally changed sex, either).'

Basically, someone asked her about the trans identified male she mentioned in her 2020 essay and this was her response.

Does she not realise there can be NO EXCEPTIONS? Give an inch they'll take a mile and all that. It doesn't matter that he is gentle and funny or that he has very female-coded energy whatever the hell that means.

This does make it seem like when she calls TIMs out she is now doing it maliciously as she is perfectly happy to play pretend if she likes them enough.

Just so frustrating as it basically says that 'we could all play along with TRAs just fine and are choosing not to because we're such meanies 😡'

J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) on X

@surreykiwi @tonymc39 @theglassfish13 Nothing's changed. I was being honest about how I feel about an individual trans woman I know, who was a gay man pre-transition, and who I met for the first time post-transition. Objectively speaking, she has physi...

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/2046948644373274709

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lifeturnsonadime · 22/04/2026 23:19

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:17

Calling an adult She is treating them like a woman.

No she isn't.

She's not saying he should be in single sex spaces.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 22/04/2026 23:18

Kingdomofsleep · 22/04/2026 23:13

Actually everyone on here accusing op of purity spiralling is doing the very same, creating pure saints and pure demons, the former group being uncriticisable.

It is possible to admire and be grateful for stuff JKR has done and said, but still criticise/scrutinise details. That's the opposite of requiring or expecting purity

Hardly! Even those defending her are disagreeing with the female coded comment. Just defending her right to choose the pronouns she uses. As I choose the ones I use.

I don’t use preferred pronouns for the trans people in my life, and have managed to wing my way through it politely. But I don’t stop others from doing what they need to do.

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:17

GingerdeadMan · 22/04/2026 23:14

But she isn't 'hand wringing'.

You seem to be missing the point that she's not calling for this TW to be treated like a woman, which is where the problem starts. She's not saying 'let my friend into the ladies'.

I don't think it's the massive hypocritical issue you're trying to make it. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what she might have meant.

I didn't like the 'female coded' woo comment either though.

There's also a massive difference between compelled pronoun use and choosing to do it as a courtesy. I personally wouldn't do it (I can just about manage 'they') but I will rage against compelled pronouns.

Calling an adult She is treating them like a woman.

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RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:17

GenderRealistBloke · 22/04/2026 23:12

Reverend is not a job. It’s a title that, traditionally, signifies that the minister is worthy of reverence because of their ordained status: their relationship with god, essentially.

If an atheist uses it to refer to a friend, are they betraying their own beliefs and movement? Affirming a lie? I think, in interpersonal situations where no one is in any doubt about who believes what, that they are not.

Reverend is literally a job. It's a job within a religious organisation but it is still a job.

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GingerdeadMan · 22/04/2026 23:14

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 22:46

I'm fighting to restore sanity and end gender ideology. Are you?

We can't do that with wishy washy hand wringing because your one trans friend is a nice person. It's not about the person. The whole ideology is toxic and to give in now is like stopping antibiotics because you feel better. You haven't cured the actual problem, you've just made the worst ones stronger.

But she isn't 'hand wringing'.

You seem to be missing the point that she's not calling for this TW to be treated like a woman, which is where the problem starts. She's not saying 'let my friend into the ladies'.

I don't think it's the massive hypocritical issue you're trying to make it. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what she might have meant.

I didn't like the 'female coded' woo comment either though.

There's also a massive difference between compelled pronoun use and choosing to do it as a courtesy. I personally wouldn't do it (I can just about manage 'they') but I will rage against compelled pronouns.

ArabellaScott · 22/04/2026 23:14

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/04/2026 21:50

There's only one group as far as I can see who's insisted on #nodebate - and it's not GC women.

We're not a hive mind and we all have varied experiences and views. Most of us have seen our views change over years - and that's because we listen, think, debate and discuss.

Anyway - welcome to Mumsnet and all that. I've no doubt this thread will run and run.

Ah. Yep. I did wonder.

Kingdomofsleep · 22/04/2026 23:13

Actually everyone on here accusing op of purity spiralling is doing the very same, creating pure saints and pure demons, the former group being uncriticisable.

It is possible to admire and be grateful for stuff JKR has done and said, but still criticise/scrutinise details. That's the opposite of requiring or expecting purity

GenderRealistBloke · 22/04/2026 23:12

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:04

Reverend Smith is a Reverend so no. It's like if you called you friend Joe who is a plumber, Plumber Joe.
Or your Catholic friend Mary, Catholic Mary.

Some might see it as odd but referring to someone's job title in the way you call them isn't saying you believe in their god. Catholic Mary is a catholic. That's a true fact. Like if I'm in the office and to clarify which John I mean I might say Accounting John.

Reverend is not a job. It’s a title that, traditionally, signifies that the minister is worthy of reverence because of their ordained status: their relationship with god, essentially.

If an atheist uses it to refer to a friend, are they betraying their own beliefs and movement? Affirming a lie? I think, in interpersonal situations where no one is in any doubt about who believes what, that they are not.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 22/04/2026 23:12

Chersfrozenface · 22/04/2026 23:03

Your colleague Dave turns up to work one day announcing that he is now Davina. You play nice and call Davina 'she'.

How can you then say you're uncomfortable with Davina using the women's toilets? Haven't you just acknowledged Davina is a woman by using the word 'she'? In which case, what's your problem?

And that's part of why I specified that people shouldn't be forced to missex people at work.

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:11

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 22/04/2026 23:09

And no one’s stopping you (well, no one here. IRL there are various obstacles we’re in court fighting about).
And no one’s building law and policy around ‘the good ones’.
JKR isn’t calling for her friend to have special treatment or to organise the world around his needs.

But she is publicly giving that friend special treatment. And she is doing it based on some unnamable criteria/test the friend seems to have passed and not on factual reality.

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Kingdomofsleep · 22/04/2026 23:10

No one is "dictating" or "compelling" JKR to do anything. Op says she's "disappointed" and I said I disapprove, of this particular comment of JKR's.

Also no one said they thought JKR would care what we think.

Why accuse us of stuff we haven't said?

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 22/04/2026 23:09

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 22:57

The way I want to be treated is to be recognised as the obviously female sex that I am. I will do the same, which means calling trans identified males men every time.

And no one’s stopping you (well, no one here. IRL there are various obstacles we’re in court fighting about).
And no one’s building law and policy around ‘the good ones’.
JKR isn’t calling for her friend to have special treatment or to organise the world around his needs.

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:09

TiredOldHen · 22/04/2026 23:05

My problem with gender ideology and TRAs has always been their aggressive dictating of what I must believe, feel, accept and acknowledge as well as the unacceptable commandeering of women’s spaces and opportunities. A transwoman who didn’t believe he was a woman, wasn’t invading women’s spaces and sports and wasn’t telling me what I could think or say wouldn’t be a problem for me at all.

On the topic of dictating what other people should think, I am amused at the idea you think JK Rowlings would give a f.ck about your dissproval of her actions, opinions, friendships or words. I could be wrong but you may not be the first, Still, you could always threaten to burn your Harry Potter books to bring her back into line, that always seems to make the other people who disapprove of her feel better.

Why do you seem to think I think JKR would care? I didn't at her on twitter to get her attention. I came here, where I thought, mistakenly perhaps, that posters on the board would care that a major figurehead of the fight we've put so much into is setting us back. Why would you jump to slander me as a book burner when I've said nothing of the sort?

The fact is that there are truths that must be held and calling males he is one of them, or else we risk sliding back into the hell we just barely managed to escape.

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TiredOldHen · 22/04/2026 23:05

My problem with gender ideology and TRAs has always been their aggressive dictating of what I must believe, feel, accept and acknowledge as well as the unacceptable commandeering of women’s spaces and opportunities. A transwoman who didn’t believe he was a woman, wasn’t invading women’s spaces and sports and wasn’t telling me what I could think or say wouldn’t be a problem for me at all.

On the topic of dictating what other people should think, I am amused at the idea you think JK Rowlings would give a f.ck about your dissproval of her actions, opinions, friendships or words. I could be wrong but you may not be the first, Still, you could always threaten to burn your Harry Potter books to bring her back into line, that always seems to make the other people who disapprove of her feel better.

BettyBooper · 22/04/2026 23:04

GenderRealistBloke · 22/04/2026 23:00

Is an atheist who refers to a friend as Reverend Smith lying?

I don’t think they are. Especially if they have gone out of their way to make their beliefs clear. What irrefutable fact are they denying by doing so?

Edited

No because a Reverend is a title with a meaning relevant to the church.

Is a person who is against the monarchy lying when they refer to the King?

ArabellaScott · 22/04/2026 23:04

Womblingmerrily · 22/04/2026 21:37

I really don't think we all have to agree on everything.

I admire what JK has done and is doing in this sphere.

Will I have differences of opinion with her view - of course - show me any two people who agree on everything.

I think it's a good thing to have a wide bandwidth of viewpoints on this if they are generally pulling in the same direction.

If we insist on purity of thought then I think we will fail to achieve the general aims of retaining womens' spaces.

Yip.

BusyAzureTraybake · 22/04/2026 23:04

Well at least we all get to debate this issue in 2026. Viva free speech.

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 23:04

GenderRealistBloke · 22/04/2026 23:00

Is an atheist who refers to a friend as Reverend Smith lying?

I don’t think they are. Especially if they have gone out of their way to make their beliefs clear. What irrefutable fact are they denying by doing so?

Edited

Reverend Smith is a Reverend so no. It's like if you called you friend Joe who is a plumber, Plumber Joe.
Or your Catholic friend Mary, Catholic Mary.

Some might see it as odd but referring to someone's job title in the way you call them isn't saying you believe in their god. Catholic Mary is a catholic. That's a true fact. Like if I'm in the office and to clarify which John I mean I might say Accounting John.

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ParmaVioletTea · 22/04/2026 23:04

How friends refer to each other is a private matter, so henceup to them. There's no public interest, safeguarding, or human rights infringement when JKR refers to a male friend as "she". It's not a choice I'd make, but I'm not going to condemn her for making it.

This is really sensible.

I think it's absolutely essential that we make a distinction between a) rejection of gender extremist ideology which tramples on women's rights, and b) straight out old-fashioned transphobia.

Let's leave the transphobia to MAGA and masculinist insecure men. I was really disappointed with KJK for the tweet linked to above. She is an utter hero, and I can understand what's led her to that position, but it's not one I can join her in.

But we need to keep insisting on the nuance. As JKR said: "Wear what you like, love whom you like etc etc" ... Her position is consistent, and is, I think, one which most people would agree with.

Chersfrozenface · 22/04/2026 23:03

Your colleague Dave turns up to work one day announcing that he is now Davina. You play nice and call Davina 'she'.

How can you then say you're uncomfortable with Davina using the women's toilets? Haven't you just acknowledged Davina is a woman by using the word 'she'? In which case, what's your problem?

GenderRealistBloke · 22/04/2026 23:00

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 22:55

It's not compulsion it's a statement of irrefutable fact. Is it a hard sell to you that lying is bad?

Is an atheist who refers to a friend as Reverend Smith lying?

I don’t think they are. Especially if they have gone out of their way to make their beliefs clear. What irrefutable fact are they denying by doing so?

BettyBooper · 22/04/2026 23:00

I have a trans identifying friend who I have literally in 20 years of close friendship never used him or her to in their presence. I say 'you'. It's not difficult.

If he's not there I refer to him as him because he is a man.

Noone knows who JKR is referring to, except close circles perhaps. Noone is 'policing her speech'. But if she is talking about a man she needs to use 'he' and if a woman 'she'. Otherwise she's lying or we need a conversation about definitions.

Because if definitions depend on the speaker, we are very much back in the weeds.

denisdenisdenis · 22/04/2026 22:58

JK was always on the softer side of GC just like Joanna Cherry.

RobynMiller · 22/04/2026 22:57

Talkinpeace · 22/04/2026 22:55

Treat people face to face as you would have them treat you.

There are ways to call out grifters that do not undermine the rights of the confused.

I respect the rights of others to have religions I think are drivel

I will call a TIM by their chosen name
but will suggest they stay well clear of the ladies loos

its called being pragmatic

The way I want to be treated is to be recognised as the obviously female sex that I am. I will do the same, which means calling trans identified males men every time.

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Talkinpeace · 22/04/2026 22:55

Treat people face to face as you would have them treat you.

There are ways to call out grifters that do not undermine the rights of the confused.

I respect the rights of others to have religions I think are drivel

I will call a TIM by their chosen name
but will suggest they stay well clear of the ladies loos

its called being pragmatic