Can't believe I'm writing this, but disappointed in JK today

@RobynMiller It's tough when your idols fall. 💐

It’s a world of difference between dealing compassionately and as a human being with the many nuanced people in your life and policy which has far greater ramifications. She speaks for many people in this I suspect.

Let me simplify my point so it's not misunderstood.

Another man could read these words and say "look, JKR calls her friend She-her because she is so female coded, but you won't call me She-her, are you saying I'm not female coded enough?"

This is why I don't like JKR's comment.

The thoughts of JKR's friend didn't enter into my argument at all.

You've misunderstood my point entirely. I wasn't talking about JKR's trans friend. I was talking about the expectations this framework could create in other transwomen.

JK has spoken about having and respecting trans friends many times over the years. She has never called for trans people to be excluded or marginalised, but believes women have the right to their own single sex spaces. This is nothing new.

I would be respectful towards any trans identifying person who respected women and their spaces and like JK I have a trans friend who presents as male, but who knows they are not biologically male. I accept them as they are.

Calling people hypocrites, liars and now insane is not going to persuade people to your view.

Just like me calling you (for silly effect) a liar and splitter I’m sure didn’t endear me to you or dispose you to be persuaded by me on anything.

That’s the point, becuase the GC movement, to succeed, needs to reach and persuade as many people as it can.

"I didn't agree with her when she said this thing, I wish she didn't say it like that"
"You're POLICING her speech!"

Er, no. That is not how disagreement works. It's possible to disagree with what someone says without wanting to literally ban them from saying it?! Why are so many people levelling this odd accusation of compelled speech

Again, where does it say that this person is claiming a right, as opposed to simply (at most) making a request?

How is it a purity spiral to acknowledge men can never be women and vice versa? OP is correct. The compelled speech is not OP's but this ridiculous society we're now living in that promotes lying.

I love JKR. She has her own views, same as everybody else. They don't have to coincide. We've always known she has pet TIMs so this isn't an inconsistent position from her.

It's funny because about 25 years ago i went to a night class where the teacher was obviously someone who was male but was presenting as female. We thought of them as she and her even though we knew they weren't and it all kind of worked.

It is only since there has been TRA's that has made us dial back on this. The whole insistence on trans women are women thing. Before that it kinda worked and JK Rowling was the only one, or one of the few, who were big enough and powerful enough to speak out. I remember speaking to a friend and saying that I couldnt voice my views because they would be unacceptable at work, I still need to police them to some extent.

Anyhow, I think JK is just doing what we used to do and I get the argument that it is not as safe to do that now - because it was used to our disadvantage but I think most people agree with - live your life how you want to be, wear what you want to wear, ask people to treat you like you want to be treated but fundamentally you have not changed sex and are not now a woman and in sports and other competitive environments where you have an advantage you should not be treated as that opposite sex person. And also in things like 'woman of the year' etc. dont take that persons space!

Why shouldn't she? Are we really going to impose a right to police people's speech now?

Where does anyone say this person insists on being called she? Yes, she likes to be called she and at least some of her friends go along with it, but that is hardly "insisting".

Yes because, as JKR actually said he is a gay man!

I don't know him so why would I give him the courtesy of calling him she?

It is up to JKR if she wants to use his preferred name/ pronouns.

But I don’t stop others from doing what they need to do.

Again, no one is stopping JKR from doing anything.

Disagreeing/disapproving, anonymously on a forum, is nothing like compulsion.

To be honest so long as he stays out of single sex spaces, which he does, then I couldn't care less what he calls himself or what courtesy his friend gives him.

OP, we used to call them all ‘she’ back in the day, with the unspoken agreement that everyone knew full well what was going on and no one was actually pretending to change sex. JK is around my age, I see no conflict. It’s only the times that have changed.

That’s not the definition of atheist either.

Anyway, splitter. You are what is going to let the evils of religion back in with your lying.

OK maybe you aren’t who I meant. I guess I meant those on here who got very angry and indignant on JKR's behalf, accusing op of burning Harry Potter books and such like.

I personally think it's wise not to have pure saints and pure demons for public figures. For example there are a couple of politicians I admire and respect but I don't agree with 100% of their views, and occasionally disapprove of things they say. It's normal. If that inspires rage in you (general you) then that's worth examining if you've sanctified that person too much in your mind.

totally agree with this.

I’ve got no problem with this at all.

The basis of GC is that TW are TW not women. She is clear that her friend is not a woman, acknowledging that she has not changed sex.

She is showing friendship to her friend, who believes they have feminine gender…

Proving that she is not transphobic.

I’m not interested in purity spirals.

JK has done so much, endured so much put so much money into fighting ‘TW are W’ and funding other women to do so.

I wouldn’t ever presume that I am a better GC than her, or be disappointed in her.

Her relationship with her friend is not in alignment with ‘TW are W’.

She had never spoken out against TIM per se, just TW are W, TRAs, TW in sports snd women’s spaces. She has been consistent on that.

OK, but you realise you are splitting the atheist movement and displaying rank hypocrisy with this view you insist on.

The job is vicar/rector/incumbent/priest in charge. The title is ‘the reverend’.