'Trans people are just trying to exist'

One of the many reasons I hate this ideology is because;

From a socially constructed view point or expectation I miss every stereotype.
I can’t abide heels and skirts I have always worn jeans and t-shirts or smart trouser suits for work. I do all the DIY at home. I am great a parallel parking and passed my driving test first time. I own a road bike and cycle in lycra which I started getting into in middle age. I am outspoken and have never titled my head to an incline to look coy or flapped my hands when I talk.

From a biological point of view, I am very obviously a female, pretty average actually. I’m 5ft 4, I’m a size 10, I have the strength and shoulder width of an average female. I struggle to fit a seat belt around my boobs comfortably and I started my periods bang on average time for my age group. I have been followed by men in a threaten way too many times to mention since puberty, I have had a group of men attempt to rape me. I have been paid less than my male colleague for doing exactly the same job in the same time frame because 'he had a family to support’.
I have given birth, I have been through menopause and struggled with the changes that brought on so suddenly. I have been asked to check with my husband for financial matters even though I had never even mentioned I was married. I had my title and surname changed by all my family for decades after I got married even though I hadn’t changed my name or title.

It is so insulting when men say they feel like a woman. They don’t, they can’t, they can only feel like their own male stereotype or idea of my sex.

I think it is a matter of what they are identifying out of.
e.g.
being a gay man
being a 'failure' of a man in a macho capitalistic society

And for some (most?), it is purely a sexual fetish.

Socially constructed = not biological
Socially constructed = stereotype for that community

I mean I’m fairly certain that trans identifying men would not identify into being a woman extremist cultures if they were allowed to.

To be blunt,
Male foetus’ identifying into being aborted for being female
Boys identifying into wear a burqa at puberty
Men stopping driving
Men identifying into having to prove they were raped by having two women witnesses to 1 man
Boys identifying into being banished from sleeping at home and forced to having to sleep overnight in a field hut because they have their period.

You can’t identify into those things and so how can you use socially constructed ideas to identify as a sex?

So with those examples in mind, what are men identifying into in the west?
Pretty clothes? Feminine mannerisms? Genuinely what? None of these things make you a woman.

This absolutely hits the nail on the head.

A bit like the Zen saying 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?'
If a transwoman was alone on a desert island, how would they know what gender they were?

But if we don't engage, they have the floor - or the thread - and the undecided and uninformed have access to nothing but the bullshit.

Its exhausting and tedious and makes me want to throw things, but I still keep plugging away for sake of the lurkers.

And to let the TRAs know that we will go on and on and on pushing back. They ain't winning this one.

Exactly. Because if people don’t keep clapping for them by treating them as if they were not men, not special, then what will they be?

Oh, you didn’t really take that seriously, did you?

However, @tiredmummasita is right. In the end, it does really stand for transvestite, because no one can actually change sex, and gender is a social construct. If some men want to grow their hair, wear make up and dresses and adopt stereotypically female hobbies & interests, they are more than welcome to do it. If they want to get cosmetic surgery to alter their male body to resemble a female body, then I guess that’s ok too, although I’m not sure the NHS should fund that. But they cannot claim to be women, and need to campaign for and use unisex spaces and stay out of female only places.

Mr Harrop’s arguments have not aged well have they.

They’ve inadvertently proved our point for us. We are pushing back on Men using female provision. If they really thought we were transphobic, they would have put trans identified women on the advert.

That’s true

Yep, this is increasingly noticeable. It's almost as if, hmmm, I don't know, that sex matters in the way humans are treated, even when declaring a trans identity.

There was a really thoughtful, engaged TiF that used to frequent these boards, seethlaw I think was the user name? Anyway, even in the trans community, that poster's experience was that the ones always being centred, being the loudest, the most aggressive and bullying were the....TiMs! To absolutely no one's surprise. I think this is what caused the scales to fall from their eyes; that at the end of the day, no matter the identity, male people always trump female people. This does not change one bit when male people grow their hair or put on dresses. It's meaningless.

Women just do not matter to men. Even with a trans identity. Unless they can be used as a stick to beat other women with, or serve a useful purpose. Otherwise they are not seen as important. Which this poster clearly demonstrates.

"trans people exist" is like "there are fairies at the bottom of my garden", "the world is flat" and "i am the Queen of Sheba". Nah. All 🐂💩

Perhaps that's the problem. Maybe being trans is not something that really exists in the person themselves but a kind of cooperative roleplay between them and everyone else. Maybe they stop being trans if we don't all clap our hands.

Honestly half the problem is them going on and on about it. If they just got on with things and said they’re trans. Like a third category nobody would care. It’s the insistence of the pretence that’s the problem. Men? No. Women? No. Trans? Yes. Third category. All good.

Yes. To me. They’ve ditched the word but it still applies. Men dressing up as women and less often vice versa.

Do we need to stop engaging in this? And here I am engaging!

Part of the warfare is to engage us.

It is quite the thing how women who claim a trans ID are becoming completely sidelined with time.

Almost like the whole trans thing is about the menz. Which was he vibe I got whe I first clocked the trans thing (and I don't claim any brilliant insight here, I was actuslly late to.the party) that it is a MRA thing.

A little bit lately the bearded ladies have been given a nod cos they've become useful for pushing men's requirements. As in, women can look like men now, so you gonna exclude the masculine women?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c33r5d6n635o

Trans is short for transgender.

Is trans short for transvestite?