Aren't transpeople still a tiny minority?

No, I come on here to remind people that most trans people are ordinary people. They aren't writing about terfs dying in grease fires or in prison after raping children. They aren't TRAs demanding access to women's sports or prizes.

I want to say, there is a middle ground here.

I am perfectly happy that women care about their rights. I want them to do that without demonising trans people or using vitriol. It doesn't help.

In order to affect change people need to listen and understand each other's position.

We cannot police the way people want to present, the names they want to use.

We can get to a healthier place where trans people acknowledge that they are not a natal woman or man, they are a trans woman or man, and that is an ok and valid thing to be, but it is different, and therefore it's important to accept that some women in particular are uncomfortable sharing intimate or restricted spaces with them.

We need to get to a place where trans people are fighting for 3rd spaces and trans-specific activities like the trans swimming my adult child attends.

That does require women to move away from the perverts/misogynists/sexists/bullshit rhetoric around transpeople too, as it perpetuates that polarisation of positions and isn't actually true for the majority. I am not trans so I have no understanding of what that might feel like, just as much as you might argue that a male person cannot know what it feels like to be female. None of us has a shared experience.

I want to get to a position of saying 'trans people are going to be mentally healthier if they aren't overly invested in "being perceived as" the other sex and "having the perceived privileges" of the other sex. In return, they deserve respect, dedicated spaces and dignity'.

Saying it's all bullshit and if I stand up for ordinary transpeople who are just living life while trying not to intrude into women's spaces I am "all hail the male" and "fawning" doesn't help in striving towards that position.

I dont care about whether I talk about men or woman - I want public toilets back. I would rather we had mixed everything - but actually had enough police so that rape wasnt essentially a legalised practice in this country, i want enough staffing in hospitals and care homes and enough social workers to sort out children services. These are issues that are not minority issues and that impact everyone, every day. Men and women.

The initial question is whether it is a minority question to which my answer is yes it is.

No trans person, no man, nor woman is going into a public toilet because there arent any.

No, I come on here to remind people that most trans people are ordinary people. They aren't writing about terfs dying in grease fires or in prison after raping children. They aren't TRAs demanding access to women's sports or prizes.

I want to say, there is a middle ground here.

I am perfectly happy that women care about their rights. I want them to do that without demonising trans people or using vitriol. It doesn't help.

In order to affect change people need to listen and understand each other's position.

We cannot police the way people want to present, the names they want to use.

We can get to a healthier place where trans people acknowledge that they are not a natal woman or man, they are a trans woman or man, and that is an ok and valid thing to be, but it is different, and therefore it's important to accept that some women in particular are uncomfortable sharing intimate or restricted spaces with them.

We need to get to a place where trans people are fighting for 3rd spaces and trans-specific activities like the trans swimming my adult child attends.

That does require women to move away from the perverts/misogynists/sexists/bullshit rhetoric around transpeople too, as it perpetuates that polarisation of positions and isn't actually true for the majority. I am not trans so I have no understanding of what that might feel like, just as much as you might argue that a male person cannot know what it feels like to be female. None of us has a shared experience.

I want to get to a position of saying 'trans people are going to be mentally healthier if they aren't overly invested in "being perceived as" the other sex and "having the perceived privileges" of the other sex. In return, they deserve respect, dedicated spaces and dignity'.

Saying it's all bullshit and if I stand up for ordinary transpeople who are just living life while trying not to intrude into women's spaces I am "all hail the male" and "fawning" doesn't help in striving towards that position.

A couple of dozen people in a northern town is a minority issue.....Now just because you have once seen one - doesnt not make it a minority issue.

What is not a minority issue is that we are all unsafe due to poor policing, we are all more at risk because services have been removed, our kids are less safe because safeguarding and verification and cash has been moved out of social services and children services. Trans people are really not a problem. The fact that we dont have any money to maintain a safe society is however an issue. The fact that people are so worried about transpeople but not the fact that we have unsafe staffing for hospitals that impacts everyone - is essentially pointing to this issue being a moral panic.

We can talk about the question of toilets and changing rooms - but the reality is that there are barely any toilets or changing rooms left anywhere regardless of gender because there is no cash.

We can talk about the use of public toilets - but lets be clear public toilets as in actually public are as rare as unicorns and frankly the discussion as to whether a unicorn is male or female is pretty much a minority issue. How many public facilities are currently left in our cities. How are they maintained? Can anyone find them etc etc etc.

Trans people didnt ruin our public toilets - austerity did

Which changing room do non-binary swimmers use?

A couple of dozen people in a northern town is a minority issue.....Now just because you have once seen one - doesnt not make it a minority issue.

What is not a minority issue is that we are all unsafe due to poor policing, we are all more at risk because services have been removed, our kids are less safe because safeguarding and verification and cash has been moved out of social services and children services. Trans people are really not a problem. The fact that we dont have any money to maintain a safe society is however an issue. The fact that people are so worried about transpeople but not the fact that we have unsafe staffing for hospitals that impacts everyone - is essentially pointing to this issue being a moral panic.

We can talk about the question of toilets and changing rooms - but the reality is that there are barely any toilets or changing rooms left anywhere regardless of gender because there is no cash.

We can talk about the use of public toilets - but lets be clear public toilets as in actually public are as rare as unicorns and frankly the discussion as to whether a unicorn is male or female is pretty much a minority issue. How many public facilities are currently left in our cities. How are they maintained? Can anyone find them etc etc etc.

Trans people didnt ruin our public toilets - austerity did

Yes the transmen use the male changing during these sessions.

Maybe this will be useful for readers.

This was a question answered in Parliament in 23 December 2024:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024

Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

Just a note on this:
Regarding the % of male prisoners in UK with transgender identities. The mentioned above for the year ending 31 March 2024 had the figure that 151 of the 243 male prisoners in the UK prisons had at least one sex offence on their record.

The ratio changed from 43.3% (88/203) having at least one sex offence to their name at 31 March 2023 to 151/243 to 62.1% as at 31 March 2024.

The increase of the overall number of male prisoners with transgender identities in the UK prisons between 2023 and 2024 was only 42 yet the increase in the sex offenders was 63.

In 2019, there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders. I haven’t looked up the stats since. But I wouldn’t expect this will be different. Last time I looked at the raw stats for female sex offences, they had remained stable numbers for a decade or more despite population growth.

For male people with transgender identities to have the same rate of committing sex offences, there would be 8 (3.3% of 243) prisoners with trans identities in the UK prison population with sex offences.

8
Not 151.

And if someone tries to suggest that the majority of these male prisoners have declared that they are women to gain access to the female prisons, I doubt this is true.

Considering the sex crime numbers for that prison population jumped from 88 to 151 male prisoners with a sex offence that declared they were women in a year (31 March 2024 to 31 March 2024) AFTER the publishing of the guidance in early February 2023, I seriously doubt these new prisoners are making declarations for the benefit of getting into the female prison.

Let's bin the magical thinking and work towards listening and mutual respect and actual solutions that enable privacy and dignity for ALL. Which doesn't include putting a sick trans woman on a ward full of men or forcing a trans woman into the men's toilets if they feel unsafe. We need gender neutral 3rd spaces that provide human dignity and respect the way people live.

Now try going into trans Reddit & saying that. They’ll tell you that anything less than unconditional acceptance into the spaces of their choice - those for the opposite sex - is triggering, othering & genocidal.

I don't think anyone here has been campaigning against transgender ideology because we think women cross the road to avoid men in general in public.

We campaign against it for a number of reasons but the OP has asked about safety. The issue is that allowing men pretending to be women in allows any and all predatory men into women's spaces, because all they have to do is announce they are trans.

As has been said many times before, good men stay out so bad men stand out. That's why we need to not blur the boundary, women only in women's spaces.

It is a minority issue as the chances of any one of us coming across this issue is unlikely. It is a minority issue because there are very few trans people. Yes, it animates a lot of debate - but it is minor for us - because we will be very unlikely to mean a trans person. It is minor statistically not because of whether or not a single trans person is a source of danger - but because statistically you are unlikely to come across them. The point of comparing stats in terms of prison stats is to show that it is a minority issue across a wide population. Actually it is everyone else misunderstanding stats and not me.

Now there is a question as to whether philosophically once one is in - all are in....one may debate that. But this is a philosophical rather than practical issue. And practically speaking - it is a minority issue. Now I am an academic and I love nothing more than debating philosophical, abstract and highly irrelevant issues but if we are being practical and talking about relevance - yes, it is a minority topic that has been highjacked by the daily mail and span out of all proportion.

No, I come on here to remind people that most trans people are ordinary people. They aren't writing about terfs dying in grease fires or in prison after raping children. They aren't TRAs demanding access to women's sports or prizes.

I want to say, there is a middle ground here.

I am perfectly happy that women care about their rights. I want them to do that without demonising trans people or using vitriol. It doesn't help.

In order to affect change people need to listen and understand each other's position.

We cannot police the way people want to present, the names they want to use.

We can get to a healthier place where trans people acknowledge that they are not a natal woman or man, they are a trans woman or man, and that is an ok and valid thing to be, but it is different, and therefore it's important to accept that some women in particular are uncomfortable sharing intimate or restricted spaces with them.

We need to get to a place where trans people are fighting for 3rd spaces and trans-specific activities like the trans swimming my adult child attends.

That does require women to move away from the perverts/misogynists/sexists/bullshit rhetoric around transpeople too, as it perpetuates that polarisation of positions and isn't actually true for the majority. I am not trans so I have no understanding of what that might feel like, just as much as you might argue that a male person cannot know what it feels like to be female. None of us has a shared experience.

I want to get to a position of saying 'trans people are going to be mentally healthier if they aren't overly invested in "being perceived as" the other sex and "having the perceived privileges" of the other sex. In return, they deserve respect, dedicated spaces and dignity'.

Saying it's all bullshit and if I stand up for ordinary transpeople who are just living life while trying not to intrude into women's spaces I am "all hail the male" and "fawning" doesn't help in striving towards that position.

We can get to a healthier place where trans people acknowledge that they are not a natal woman or man, they are a trans woman or man, and that is an ok and valid thing to be, but it is different, and therefore it's important to accept that some women in particular are uncomfortable sharing intimate or restricted spaces with them.

Ten years ago I thought that's where we were at. That trans women were men who wished they were women and that everyone knew that trans women were men that wished they were women.

Then along came the phrase "trans women are women"......

At that point I first felt guilty because I couldn't trick my eyes and ears into thinking the bloke in front of me was a woman.

I'm not sure it's possible to get to that stance that I had assumed existed. Women wouldn't be in the courts (see Darlington nurses) for the right to not change in front of men if it was possible to get there because surely it would just be common sense all around.

Don't you see a massive problem with this, particularly if the transman is quite obviously a biological female, which is highly probable, given the tiny number of transgender people who have any type of surgery.

Don't you see a massive problem with this, particularly if the transman is quite obviously a biological female, which is highly probable, given the tiny number of transgender people who have any type of surgery.

What about comparing trans people of different sexes?

According to the census (not reliable, I know), the number of males identifying as trans is about the same as the number of females identifying as trans. In recent years, the number of people issued with GRC is closing between the sexes (approx 2,800 males and 2,400 female over the last 6 years).

The prison numbers should be similar shouldn't they? But males who identify as trans are more represented in prison for sexual assault than females who identify as trans.