STONEWALL REVERSE FERRET INCOMING

Superb article.

And as we now see, it was an unmitigated disaster. Quite apart from wrecking lives, the project was stupidly counterproductive. Over time, it caused people to become a lot less conscientious about how they talked and thought about trans-identified people generally — and also about gays and lesbians, often pulled unwillingly into the alphabet soup. For, once the big guns had been wheeled out against politely accurate sentences and age-old habits of mind, there was no effective social cudgel left to wield against genuinely poisonous discourse.

A lot of social change comes from moderate people gently pushing back against racism, homophobia, true transphobia etc in their families and communities. If you start calling those moderates 'bigots' and telling them to 'die in a grease fire' because they are not fully onboard with every social justice utterance, then many of them will stop pushing back against the true bigots and may even start to consider whether the bigots might have a point. What happened in Stonewall was a complete failure to understand human nature.

Kathleen Stock in the Times:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/c7748424-b222-42a6-836d-1e17a62d8aee?shareToken=5f9a8d5b8eef600994af8ab75a2f2799&ver=article

Well, if she's not very careful, she'll find herself on their hit list PDQ. Welcome to our world, Kezia! Try "debating " yourself out of that!

Also, Kezia Dugdale seems to want to turn her back on the no debate era and listen to different viewpoints. Has no-one told her how utterly uncompromising the trans lobby is? And the fact that she wants to focus on other things, such as the other groups represented under the acronym, will be viewed as LITERAL GENOCIDE.

Wow. I've just listened, and I agree, it is quite nuanced and balanced (for the Guardian at least). There is a good discussion regarding the criticisms of Stonewall, more than in the article. And I've never found Lobby Brooks to be balanced, but she does give a good summary of the issues here.

Wise. I hope we I haven't ruined your thread? There's some good discussion in amongst the...um... robust conversation, shall we say.

It gets better. They saw that Maya said something on LinkedIn about hoping Sex Matters could talk to KD. They’re now livid.

Happy birthday this week, NotAtMyAge, hope it's everything you want for your 80th!

Thanks for archiving

KD: "We're not dogmatic and sitting in silos."

Is she bloody kidding? That's all Stonewall is about, silos, squeezing everyone into tiny little boxes full of stereotypes.

In the Times today:
https://archive.ph/tTJXZ
I believe they will target the next generation, playing the long game.

I hope you have a fabulous week-long birthday celebration, NotAtMyAge. Eighty sounds pretty august.

😂😂It would certainly melt the icing. 😁

No candles on a cake for me, but plenty of little treats all week instead. 😊

I've just realised that Kezia Dugdale was the Chair of the recent LGBTQIA+ Hustings event where journalists were told to leave. The event was a collaboration between the Equality Network, Scottish Trans, LEAP and LGBTYS, all of whom receive significant amounts of funding from the Scottish Government.

Yes happy birthday @NotAMyAge

Happy birthday @NotAtMyAge

There is a Guardian podcast of this interview. Helen Pidd presses KD more than we might expect from a Guardian journalist & there is a contribution from Libby Brooks who is one of the few Guardian journalists still standing who reports objectively on gender issues..

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stonewalls-new-chair-on-trans-rights-jk-rowling-and/id1440133626?i=1000762321691

No worries, Tinsel, I don't mind either way. I didn't consider the Google search aspect, good point.

I wasn’t disagreeing with you.

Fair enough, Marie and Thingybob, it's just a pattern I have noticed. Usually four or five posts in a row, normally between 1am and 3am. As a previous poster pointed out, that might explain some things. (or it's just insomnia)

Seconded, I've always found IWTRs posts informative and helpful.

Sorry, but I appear to be hardwired to say 'But in fairness.....' - 😒
'But in fairness', IWTR also posts some useful and positive stuff, e.g. recently posting about the LGB Alliance conference.

Yes, me, too - as many others have said, this ideology ruins everything it touches. I doubt it will be fully untangled within my lifetime, at this rate. Especially since we are still so on our own here in the UK (and still really struggling in Wales and Scotland). I believe the EA 2010 doesn't even fully apply in NI??

The US is years behind us and, as the impetus for the ideology seems to have come from there, if we have to wait until they catch up, we could be waiting a very long while.

Meanwhile, however, Stonewall starting a bit of a reverse ferret (oops, I said it!) is a glimmer of hope, perhaps? They will still have to be watched carefully. Vigilance required.

Tinsel, I think IWTR's entire agenda is IWTR. That, and keeping the top 20 threads their own, to the exclusion of everyone else. I've lost count of the number of threads IWTR has started and never returned to. IWTR really does not like it when other posters "get there first ."

I was serious when I posted yesterday that I often wonder if IWTR has a nefarious purpose in continuing the gender ideology debate. No good news is ever good enough. For years, many, many "good news" threads have been countered with "but, what about this terrible piece of news I've just posted about??". Dragging us down into depressive news stories time and again. Leaving us no time to celebrate. What's the real agenda here?

Sorry, I'm derailing again.

A birthday cake with 80 lit candles on it would be a conflagration!