Grace Campbell - Alastair Campbell

Me too! He just always seems like a good egg, along with being intelligent and funny and having absolutely no truck with 'woke tosh'.

I found Anthony Scaramucci interesting to listen to about US politics, I'm sure there were a couple of subscriber episodes of TRIH he was on. Self-deprecating too, unlike Campbell (for whom it really seemed to smart that Sandbrook was right and he wasn't...)

And LOL at the 'emotional support pen' - I can't unsee that now

I'm well aware that I was opening myself to criticism for making any comment. I deliberately mentioned that my perspective is a male one, because many of you know I'm a man but not everyone already did, and I didn't want to hide behind any assumption that I'm female. It's an occupational hazard for a man (and particularly one who has difficulty shutting up!) that he will sometimes be seen negatively for things he says. That's fine with me. I'm not always aware of just how feminist women will see things so I'm going to annoy people unintentionally, and it's reasonable for them to express their feelings. I might even learn something – in fact, I think I have, as I undoubtedly put my foot in it more often when I was younger.

However, several people judging GC on her looks on this thread seemed a bit much to me, as she's perfectly presentable. And likewise the FWS women are clearly not "ugly" despite a woman and a man repeatedly saying so. I don't think any of these people should be dismissed based on their looks, even the man – at least he's not wearing highly sexualised clothing in that video.

I do take issue with "give [my] opinion on everyone's looks". I obviously could say plenty more on GC's and the FWS women's looks, but it's not a subject that interests me, it would be either creepy (if I was complimentary) or rude, and what I was trying to say is that none of them is in any way worthy of negative comment based on how they present themselves (with the caveat that I have seen some pictures of GC in decidedly unusual clothing).

She's a nepo baby, whose comedy 'career' exists simply and solely because of her father's name and notoriety.

She used the name when it served her, she's done nothing at all to merit recognition without it, ergo it gets used when referring to her.

Cake, eating it etc etc etc.

Great idea - she can just identify out of having a phobia.

Totally!
if someone showed me footage of Grace Cambell and Connie Shaw then asked me which was AC & FM’s daughter I wouldn’t have picked Grace on this basis of this clip!

If FM used to be a “good feminist” back in the say, then I expect thats been somewhat undone by being in a hard left social group… the family would have been cast out if they expressed any sex realist views

Nobody would know who she was, though. And the irony of the comments are in direct relation to 1. Her father chiding women/femjnists for not being kind and nice enough, and supposedly 2. Her views on feminism are where AC gets his from.

I think it will be really interesting to see how she feels if she ever has kids. I am 10 years older her. When I was her age (had kids at 35) I really think I would have felt the same. Before you realise how much your biology effects your ability to progress in the world, the respect you ge from medical staff, the sacrifices you need to make that men don't. For me none of that was apparent until I got pregnant . Life was easy and I really wouldn't have thought about gender or sex. I'd just have thought trans people should jus be given whatever the need to be happy.

Clearly . I'm lucky. I've never been a victim of sexual violence or had. men or been involved in proffesional sport. I think for a lot of you my prople like I was, the sex thing really doesn't make a difference. BUT IT MIGHT when you realsis the trans wome gets a promotion ahead of yo u as she wont have a child. Or when you see how you pain in birth or menopause is minimised or dismissed. Or when you have you bits out on the recovery ward post birth and people's husbands are wandering around.

its a bit like how feminism forgot that looking after a kid is a full time job and failing to answer the question of who does it if you and your partner (if you have one) are at work. They got women out the house physically but not mentally. Now we are all buggered with massive house prices because we can borrow against two salaries, still fighting for men to pic up the pace and still fighting for decent flexibility for all. The same thing will happen to these girls. They will realis we've hard way that ignoring inherent biology will HARM them.

Always a joy to rewatch that clip. I am more than a little bit in love with Dom S - partly the voice, partly the way he tends to remember that women exist and matter, partly because he's bloody funny.

And mostly, as here, because he actually bloody thinks. Thereby showing up Campbell and Stewart as the bien-pensant bloviators they are.

I think it’s a bit crass to name check her father in the title. Can’t a girl have her own identity?

GC“We are completely missing the main point that men are predators”.
CC “Yeah, not transwomen”

Nearly, Grace dear. I’m sure you can join the dots if you try really hard.

Sorry, I've worded this badly. Trying to explain:

'Internalised misogyny has very little, really, to do with looks'

Internal misogyny has very little to do with how one actually looks and everything to do with being oppressed by arbitrary and selective 'standards' that are far more indicative of status, etc.

What I mean is that girls and women are relentlessly taught to focus on their appearance and obsessively check it against standards. These standards are subjective, invented, and often impossible for most to achieve.

Thats on purpose, which keeps women focused on their own supposed shortcomings and flaws. 'Negging' by PUAs does the same. A form of gas lighting.

Greer in The Female Eunuch is great on this. But Grace couldn't possibly read someone so verboten.

To be fair, I thought TRIP US election coverage was brilliant. Really brought much needed hilarity to an otherwise crap result. Dominic was great and really showed Alastair and Rory up which is always a bonus.

Plus this gives me an opportunity to re-share the moment Alastair grumpily gives Dominic the floor: "...as the person who got it right, what do you think we got wrong?" 😁

With Rory just looking stunned and just sitting with his "emotional support pen" - I remember another user came up with that phrase the last time the election special was discussed and I think it's perfect.

She’s apparently said in the past that the all girls environment was good for her! Ridiculous. Reminds me of someone I know who says she has a phobia of mixed sex bathrooms because she has OCD and has a genuine fear and paranoia of men being in the same facility as her. But apparently this doesn’t apply to TW because TWAW. I was going to suggest that she gets over her fear by just imagining that every man is actually trans but decided against it.

Ah ok - so she’s never had to deal with a co-ed comp. Explains a lot. The boys defo know who the girls are - and in my experience the sexual harassment is fairly hideous

Rory and Alistair are the very worst of left-wing overconfident blokes - they feel that they've looked at a situation, come to a conclusion and that's that. They're obviously right so what possible other viewpoint could anyone consider other than their own?

What is it they say about the confidence of mediocre men...

I avoid everything from Goalhanger except TRIH, I'd love it if Dom n Tom found a way to extricate themselves from the wingnut empire.

@DrudgeJedd, can I recommend The Bookclub? Also a Goalhanger podcast, and also Dominic Sandbrook (who, quite frankly, I'd listen to if he was reading out the blurb at the back of a cornflake packet) and one of TRIH producers, Tabby. It's excellent, even when it's a book I have no intention of reading!

Genuine question ROGD: why did you feel the need to give your male opinion on everyone's looks?

The truth of “we all judge” makes these comments even more baffling to me. Most people judge to a greater or lesser extent, mostly we keep those thoughts to ourselves - or share with a suitably close and judgey friend. You wonder what kind of arrogant faith in your own righteousness you have to have to make them out loud, on a podcast. Calling yourself a feminist while doing it is even more baffling. Can none of these people hear themselves?

They always remind me of a line from Dr Who (of all places) “no one has said ‘no’ to you for a very long time, have they?”

Yes I couldn’t help wondering about pots and kettles when the Nepobaby started on about ugly haircuts. Despite being aware of the irony in my thinking this. But neither of them looks like they’ve ever even had a haircut.

PS Whenever I’ve seen her in person at events, Naomi Cunningham always looks the sharpest dressed woman in the room

You’d think that someone with such impressive parents (I’m not a fan of AC or Fiona Millar but they have done well for themselves) would be sharp, articulate, persuasive etc. She reminds me of an obnoxious teenager but she’s in her 30s. I’d be really disappointed if that was my offspring.

Patronisingly tells a woman to "Try to dig into it a bit deeper" and then confidently pronounces his views as being formed by three women. Not much digging there Alastair. What a twat. For this he’s paid a million £ a year.

Edited to add: I am sympathetic to Grace, it must be hard growing up in the spotlight and trying to find your place in the world with two successful parents.

I used to work with Fiona Millar back in the day and she was a good feminist. I suspect this isn’t an upbringing problem but a jumping on the bandwagon problem.

It doesn't matter how attractive or not women are. The idea of there being some ideal women are supposed to look like in order to be acceptable to the world is a complete red herring. Internalised misogyny has very little, really, to do with looks. The world - the patriarchy - performs a complete number on girls and women, from birth, relentlessly negging them. Partly in order to sell vast amounts of unnecessary shite, but also in part as a way to keep women in their place.

I’m intrigued by what you’re saying @ArabellaScott, can you expand?

Because I’d dispute that the idea of an ideal woman being more acceptable to men/the world is not a complete red herring in this discussion. What constitutes international beauty norms and its associated benefits is a vast topic but looks is one key element of the patriarchy. Relevant to analysing their podcast precisely because of the words / topic chosen by Grace to dismiss the efforts of FWS ie being physically ugly = ugly personality.

And if not internalised misogyny, then what would you call it when women judge their own and other women’s looks on the beauty ideal?

As a Jeremy Thorpe scholar (we're a small but fun community) I will always love Tom and Dom for the episode they did on the Thorpe scandal.

Sorry, Tom and Dom 😂

Oooh, I love TRIH!