Baroness Faulkner on Women’s Hour now

I do admit to being irrational about it. Carol, now departed from BBC Breakfast weather always said south-ren and I didn’t mind because she’s so nice .

I always think that the extra “r” after a long a is a Southern English thing - calling drawers drawr-ers etc. I once had a very weird conversation with someone who I thought was looking for car keys, but in the end it turned out to be something khaki!!

The ‘ren’ or ‘ran’ pronunciation actually matches the original Irish pronunciation of the name better than ‘ern’ does. It’s the choice of ‘ern’ for the anglicised spelling of the name’s final syllable’s that’s odd really. But anglicised spellings were often off like that and sometimes the pronunciation of a name changed over the years to reflect the new English spelling and sometimes it didn’t.
www.libraryireland.com/names/mag/mag-shamhradhain-mag-shamhrain.php

Yes there is a glide vowel in Irish between R and N / M and also L / M . Not sure that's the etymologists term but for example Colm is said something like Collum. Hence ' fillum' I suppose.

Back on topic : yes the Baroness shows great forbearance!

Rhotic 'r's 'r' us😄
Irish Gaelic does not 'like' two consonants one after the other, and puts a vowel in between. Usually. Sometimes. Somebody is bound to come up with an exception😒
This survives in Hiberno-English as in 'fillum' for film.
'Modh-er-in' for 'modern' sounds very likely, Emilesgran.

My local accent would have a very short 'a' in Daleks, UtopiaPlanitia, but I can hear it being lengthened in other accents.

PS Baroness Falkner is a wonderful and inspiring woman, who deserves better than having her thread derailed by linguistics - but we just can't help ourselves, can we?

Well that's the first time I've listened to WH in about 100 years!

KF is the very embodiment of resilience. She is so strong. Her answers were great. Very reasoned and principled. She was excellent. So impressively clear.

Thanks for the heads-up, OP.

🤔 Hiberno-English dialects have a tendency to add post-vocalic 'R' in words that, to us, sound like the speakers are using a non-voiced 'R' in British-English dialects e.g. 'DaRleks' instead of "Daleks'. It could have something to do with that plus your theory of the pronunciation shortening...

When I hear Baroness Falkner discussing her time at EHRC, I am always surprised at how charitable she is in discussing the activist employees who tried to ruin her reputation and get her fired. She's a damn sight more understanding than I would be.

Yes you’re right about “modren” for “modern” though I couldn’t have said which regions use that. So now I’m wondering whether it’s related to the addition of that extra vowel in words like “film” - or as I grew up saying, “Fillim”.
It could have been “moderen” with the first e gradually disappearing couldn’t it?
Maybe I owe Ms McGoveren my apologies!

(And apologies too to people looking for a discussion of the wonderful Baroness Kishwer Falkner - back on topic now!)

I've heard that usage in Ulster border dialects too.

The interview with the Baroness was a definite improvement on the past style of interview on Women's Hour. The final question seems to be de rigeur for all media interviews these days - talk about women's issues a bit if you must but always bring it back to trans and how things affect them.

I find Baroness Falkner to be a very impressive woman - she's a battler from her earliest girlhood onwards. She has an impressive CV and personal history. I'd love to be even half as determined and motivated as she is.

I think there is an expectation that they will always shoehorn that question in. Baroness Falkner's response was great though.

Haha I'm Irish too, and I've never noticed that about how she pronounces her name. I didn't mind her when she was on World Service, but I've found her really disappointing on Women's Hour.

Autocorrect was the first thing I switched off after they introduced it ca. 2001, or whenever 🖥️ . Arrgh!

Autocorrect can be a bit of an uphill battle, at times. While I am busy fire fighting over one unwarranted correction, it is busy rearranging letters elsewhere. 🙄

It maybe sounds like 'ren' rather than 'ern' if there is a short vowel sound for 'e' and a strong rhotic 'r'.

I'm with you there - 'r' has a tendency to wander a bit, it's called metathesis, 'bird' in modern English was 'brid in Old English.
My elders used to say 'modren' too, and I automatically say McGovren. It's probably regional.

All of which is very secondary to how awful Nuala McGovern is [allegedly, I'm not a WH listener, but she gets a pretty bad press here!] and how admirable Baroness Falkner is

https://x.com/i/status/2045085344526188741

Not sure. Some Irish people seem to dislike that ERN sound. My nan used to say ' ModRen' for modern. She was from Roscommon , plenty of McGoverns up that way.

Yes she was not as noticeably hostile as Nuala McGovern is but the final question was still the “How will the poor trans people feel?” Perhaps that was obligatory and she had no choice but to ask it.

Yeah that annoys me too - it’s so weird isn’t it?
I always assumed it was one of those D4 affectations like ORR-tee-ee but maybe it’s just her.
Though TBH her craven handmaidening is a more serious criticism.

Wow do you think maybe they've decided to <gasp> broaden the presentership (and/or maybe even the editorial/production, who knows) to include people who don't relentlessly push an unevidenced, anti-woman agenda? Revolutionary, WH!

I haven't listened to it yet, but apparently the presenter was new.

Not one of either of the usual presenters.

I have had a quick look of her twitter, where she is

"Award-winning investigative journalist, broadcaster & presenter. 5 News, ITV, BBC One, Radio 4, World Service, Channel 4
@BJTC_UK
J&A Board RTs not endorsements"

Nuala annoys me for the (probably unreasonable of me) reason that she introduces herself as Nuala McGovREN, when her name is McGovERN) ! I’m Irish and know people called McGovern and none of them call themselves McGovREN.

I listened to it on Sounds! Just went into the schedule, selected it and slid the cursor to the interview. That was before the live programme had ended though so maybe you can’t do that once it’s over 🤷‍♀️

Still not available on Sounds to listen again - they are often very slow to make WH available when there’s been a challenge to gender ideology on….