Southport report lays bare the failures of authorities - and the attacker's parents

I can't go into details here but in very difficult situations a lot of people get involved. That can go badly wrong, things escalate, people panic and it can lead to a lot of parent blame as a game of Chinese whispers becomes fact. Eventually someone has to take control. It actually turned everything around for us but it was an experience I'll never recover from.

It doesn't take much common sense and you don't need government advice to know that if you have a volatile child in the home prone to violent outbursts, you don't let him keep a collection of hunting knifes, arrows and poison.

What used to happen in the past? Were people who were "different" just locked away?

yeah pretty much. Pre the 1992 community care act and the dissolution of the old mental asylums, ppl were locked away on them for a plethora of reasons

my sister worked in one in the early 90s. She said there were all kinds off ppl in there who'd been there for years. "juvenile delinquency" (very broad category), people with PTSD from ww2, women who were teenage mothers - some traumatised for sexual abuse. I'd be amazed if it didn't also include ND ppl with autism

Tbh lots of social workers are really nice and really do care so it's no criticism of social workers.

That’s good to hear. Who are the people who are blaming you for being attacked by your child?

Tbh lots of social workers are really nice and really do care so it's no criticism of social workers. Some are understandably hypervigilent so a narrative can form quickly, everything then slots into that narrative and take quite a while to shift. It's hard for them to get CAMHS input I think as CAMHS don't have the time. They are usually the ones running around frantically trying to coordinate everything behind the scenes and working until midnight and on their days off. I personally wouldn't advise complaining as it only strains the relationships.

I don't think anything will change as services are stripped to the bone and until the system changes nothing will.

Yes. The thing is that nothing materialises. If you beg for help you are seen as the problem for not being able to cope, this can lead to safeguarding where you are judged for everything, lots of meetings, loads of intrusion and you are told you're a crap parent

@Thekidsarefightingagain that’s so shocking.
Are these social workers who blame you trained to do this or is it a way of avoiding dealing with the problem?
What happens if you complain about these people who are supposed to be helping you but are making things worse?
Do you think after the terrible Southport tragedy, anything will change?

Yes. The thing is that nothing materialises. If you beg for help you are seen as the problem for not being able to cope, this can lead to safeguarding where you are judged for everything, lots of meetings, loads of intrusion and you are told you're a crap parent.

You are seen as collateral damage really - or that's the way it feels anyway. It's your fault that you get attacked by your child, you must be doing something to make them do that. There's very little empathy towards you. Lots of families seem to experience this. I think that that's one of the most traumatic things as when you really need support you get stones thrown at you. I appreciate that not everyone has this experience but many do.

I don't know but you get some bonkers reports to avoid providing non existent resources. There's often a lot of eye rolling from other professionals.

He had been in trouble for carrying a knife before and nothing happened.

The parents could reasonably assume that if they reported him, nothing much would happen again, except that their lives would be in danger from him.

The issues around child to parent violence are complicated. People are saying the dad should have done this, should have done that, without having experience of living with a violent child who threatens to kill you, and there is no practical help.

The only person currently in danger of that is the last social worker, who took 9 months to write up her report.

It is damming to others, whilst acknowledging for some, they tried their best and failings were due to systematic failures. To others, it is damming where there is personal failure.

Will these people lose their jobs or will they just carry on working?

Why can't they write that they have inadequate funding? It should be part of professional competence to say when you don't have the right tools to do your job. I do it all the time!

It's a really difficult situation as CAMHS are completely on their knees. They were before COVID, it's so much worse now. So many professionals have emigrated for nicer jobs, others go private. They can't do much. Social care are inundated, education failings just puts more pressure on them all. And it's going to get much worse because of the SEND white paper. Residential placements cost a fortune, budgets have been slashed. It's a lot of stress for professionals, they get burned out and probably very worried that at some point they'll be hauled up to give evidence at an inquest. It's all such a mess.

What gets written on paper doesn't always reflect the reality of things (IME at least, it may not have been the case here). Profs can't just write we have no funding. So be mindful of that.

I always feel sad that agencies, parents etc are pitted against each other when everyone wants the same outcome really. It's a huge systemic issue, I wish that the news focused on this more than the parents or certain professionals.

If as parents we don't teach our dc right from wrong we simply fail them.

If someone lashes out and becomes aggressive and violent due to autistic 'meltdown' if that's the correct term, it's a completely different situation because it's not sadistic, it's a fight, freeze or flight stress response. This person can be supported by giving them the necessary adjustments e.g at work or school. But AR is a sadistic evil man who murdered innocent children in cold blood. I really find the supportive messages about his parents to some extent him ("if only he had had support") very concerning. We cannot be a peaceful and healthy society if we don't deal with violent people, no matter what their condition or background is.

All the professionals are named in the inquiry report (with 2 exceptions) published and available for anyone to read.

I think was a fair, balanced and well researched inquiry. Credit is given to professionals (especially the Alternative Provision Head/Deputy Head) and others where their actions were appropriate.
It is damming to others, whilst acknowledging for some, they tried their best and failings were due to systematic failures. To others, it is damming where there is personal failure.
The issue is that no-one really risk assessed or worked with AR around his potential to harm others, it was more around safe-guarding him, 3 x referrals to Prevent where basically ignored, there a lack of information sharing and the parents were allowed to dictate terms of engagement. I rarely say this, but in this instance, after reading the report, dad especially was obstructive and was untruthful at least with professionals....

If they didn't think it was a grave concern, why would you?

But being caught in public with a knife should be a huge concern. If my kids did this' I'd report them to the police. Because once you start covering this sort of thing up, it will all end in tears. I am not judging the parents, their family life must have been hell and even if the dad was possibly arrogant or protective, none of us know how we'd feel or our our innate traits would repose to a child like AR. But we have got to get back to some sort of shared understanding of what's right and wrong otherwise we are doomed as a society. Knife = bad = serious consequences. If the police was lax then the parents ought to to have come down on him like a ton of bricks.

I actually did a Google search on the parents of the killers of Jamie Bulger. Both killers came from single parent households and both seemed to have horrific upbringings. In contrast, this perpetrators home life seems outwardly idyllic.

He didn't get services, he got referrals to services, who all said "not us" and discharged him. Prevent said he didn't have an ideology. CAMHS said he didn't have a mental health problem, that it was a social care issue. Social Services kept opening a case then discharging him. The last social worker involved took 9 months to write up her report. Btw she is being investigated for this, the only professional involved to be under any possible sanction.

I hope that if I thought there was a genuine danger to the public, that I would report it. But how would you know? The police caught this person on s bus with a knife but didn't do anything. If they didn't think it was a grave concern, why would you?

Sounds to me like the inquiry is criticising the parents not for their parenting but for their public-mindedness. They kept their son in a familiar, safe environment, fed him etc. What they didn't do is put the wider community ahead of their son - they protected him, not the community. Bad behaviour but not sure that's bad parenting.

The son poured a bottle of oil over him and threatened to kill him according to an article in today's Times.

Lots of young people are beyond parental control for whatever reason.

Maybe some of them are inherently cruel, nasty people, whose parents have no chance with them.

I didn't say that the professionals shouldn't be held accountable. I believe that is done through misconduct hearings, re-training, supervision at work, even criminal charges etc. I don't think it should be done by leaving working people open to verbal and possibly physical attack.

For reference, previously, he was referred to CAMHS but they put the issue he was dealing with at the time down to his autism, said he wasn't in crisis if he was eating and sleeping well so they couldn't help, apart from 1 follow up appointment months later.

Ime CAMHS has the 'standard pathway' and the 'ND pathway' and the latter is extremely short and leads straight to an exit door because "all autistic people are anxious" (and sometimes suicidal, and intermittently violent, etc) and "we can't address that as it is part of the condition".

TBH if you wanted to design a legal, wholesome-looking service to make people feel anxious, suicidal and potentially violent you couldn't do much better than the ND pathway at CAMHS!

Well if the professionals who failed are sacked, as they should be, there will be no need to name them as there will be no risk they will fail again, will there?

There needs to be accountability or this will happen again.

It's a bit much to say you wish the families healing but stand behind there being no possible accountability for the professionals who failed.

Frankly I'd rather an adult who failed in their job to protect children face angry comments online from angry parents than another child killed.

As @MeetMeOnTheCorner says* *residential school with the option to stay in the holidays would be a good option for those who can't cope with normal every day life and are a risk to others.