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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jennifer Melle wins settlement from NHS

305 replies

RoyalCorgi · 13/04/2026 12:49

Haven't seen a thread about this anywhere else, but Jennifer Melle, the nurse who refused to refer to a convicted sex offender by his preferred pronouns, and was disciplined, has won a settlement from the NHS trust she works for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

Nurse Jennifer Melle takes part in a show of solidarity with MPs and nurses on College Green outside the Houses of Parliament in Westminster, central London, place ahead of the NHS disciplinary hearing of Christian nurse Jennifer Melle on Tuesday.

Nurse in trans dispute win settlement from NHS employer

Melle was racially abused by a transgender woman at a hospital after she addressed them as "Mr".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vlxdnnpqo

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MyAmpleSheep · 13/04/2026 22:00

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about)

This is a curious motte-and-bailey style argument. What are we to deduce about this nurse, these events, and this outcome from your assertion that most trans people are just ordinary people. How is that a relevant consideration?

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 21:57

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Well good for you. Im glad you’ve got nice friends and you are happy to call them whatever gender they like. In a small social circle that’s completely fine and nice.

unfortunately you are totally unreasonable to attempt to scale that to a population level where others have different beliefs. It’s not a stable basis for law making or balancing everyone’s rights. you don’t have the right to make everyone else set their rights to zero to accommodate these men

so please stop being a party pooper on a thread thats meant to be in support of Jennifer Melle - do you do this in other spheres of life to people who got through a really hard time? Or just here?

TheKeatingFive · 13/04/2026 21:52

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:48

Having learned more it appears the initial use of "Mr" on the phone call was an understandable error.

At this point the staff were all aware that this sick person was from a sex offender wing of a prison, that he was large, that he was shackled to two prison officers whose responsibility it presumably was to keep the staff and the other patients safe.

By the point of the phone error the trans person was apparently already angry, dysregulated, and upsetting other patients.

I don't think it was Jennifer's fault that he behaved like that either before or after her interaction with him; he is responsible for his own intolerable behaviour.

I do think it, however, wasn't the right or judicious moment to double down on the accidental use of the term "Mr" and justify it, to someone who was never going to deal with that well, even if not ill and not already dysregulated. I think it was predictable that an outburst of some sort would follow. That does not make it right or acceptable or excusable.

To what extent a lead professional in a situation should work to de-escalate moments of tension that could be dangerous in their work environment appears to be one that most people have differing views from me on. I would say de-escalate first, be right later.

Edited

But why does she have to lie to 'descalate tension'?

What is inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun? We all do it, all the time. Until relatively recently it would have been decidedly odd not to do so. What changed? And why do you think we should all go along with that change, despite not ever being asked for our view?

TheKeatingFive · 13/04/2026 21:49

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Well sure.

But they havent changed sex.

So why are we all being forced to pretend they have?

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:48

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 21:37

@AlwaysNuance can you clarify please? getting some kind of heightened response in that situation was pretty predictable
so it was Jennifer’s fault that he behaved like that?

Having learned more it appears the initial use of "Mr" on the phone call was an understandable error.

At this point the staff were all aware that this sick person was from a sex offender wing of a prison, that he was large, that he was shackled to two prison officers whose responsibility it presumably was to keep the staff and the other patients safe.

By the point of the phone error the trans person was apparently already angry, dysregulated, and upsetting other patients.

I don't think it was Jennifer's fault that he behaved like that either before or after her interaction with him; he is responsible for his own intolerable behaviour.

I do think it, however, wasn't the right or judicious moment to double down on the accidental use of the term "Mr" and justify it, to someone who was never going to deal with that well, even if not ill and not already dysregulated. I think it was predictable that an outburst of some sort would follow. That does not make it right or acceptable or excusable.

To what extent a lead professional in a situation should work to de-escalate moments of tension that could be dangerous in their work environment appears to be one that most people have differing views from me on. I would say de-escalate first, be right later.

usedtobeaylis · 13/04/2026 21:45

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 13:32

The trans person was racially abusive, but only AFTER being referred to as "Mr". That doesn't excuse it. But it was inflammatory behaviour from the nurse in my view. She could have simply said "the patient in cubicle 5" or "Susan Jones". She didn't have to say "Mr Jones".

I agree with the trust that neither racial abuse nor breaching patient confidentiality is ok.

Nope. Being called Mr doesn't cause racism.

HouseOfGoldandBones · 13/04/2026 21:43

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 14:02

Yeah, nah.

The sex of a person may indeed be of paramount importance in certain medical situations. There are ways and ways of saying that in situations where it is important. One could say "the patient in cubicle 5 who is a trans woman, born male" or "Susan Jones, who is transgender". You don't have to say "Mr Jones".
She could even have said "Susan Jones, who was previously male". None of those are disrespectful.

Having read the times article above it's clear that she wasn't asking about what specific treatment was needed for a male bodied person. She was reporting that the patient wanted to leave. She could have said "Susan Jones in cubicle 5 is asking to self-discharge".

You think a HCP would say someone was "previously male"?

Datun · 13/04/2026 21:38

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 20:58

Yes, isn’t it like saying… well I know a man, he’s lovely and kind, so all men must be lovely and kind?

Exactly.

It's such a silly thing to say.

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 21:37

@AlwaysNuance can you clarify please? getting some kind of heightened response in that situation was pretty predictable
so it was Jennifer’s fault that he behaved like that?

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:36

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 21:19

Sure.
How about you answer @Datun 's post at 20:37?

My "lived experience" of this board differs from Datun's assertion.

KnottyAuty · 13/04/2026 21:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 21:20

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2026 21:04

Yep

It's nonsense. "I know Bob and Bob is nice therefore anyone vaguely like Bob must be nice too. I don't believe you can possibly know anyone like Bob, therefore I'm going to call you a bigot rather than acknowledge your lived experience of Fred who you happen to be related to / known since early childhood because I know best and Bob is the only one who really matters and we can't talk about Fred because that might make people wonder if it's a personality thing rather than a Gender Identity thing and thus people with a GI must all be nice because of Bob being the sole template. If I accept it's a personality thing I have to ask some other difficult questions...

#AllBobsAreKind #NoDebate…

BusyAzureTraybake · 13/04/2026 21:19

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:15

I haven't called anyone a bigot.

Sure.
How about you answer @Datun 's post at 20:37?

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 21:15

I haven't called anyone a bigot.

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2026 21:04

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 20:58

Yes, isn’t it like saying… well I know a man, he’s lovely and kind, so all men must be lovely and kind?

Yep

It's nonsense. "I know Bob and Bob is nice therefore anyone vaguely like Bob must be nice too. I don't believe you can possibly know anyone like Bob, therefore I'm going to call you a bigot rather than acknowledge your lived experience of Fred who you happen to be related to / known since early childhood because I know best and Bob is the only one who really matters and we can't talk about Fred because that might make people wonder if it's a personality thing rather than a Gender Identity thing and thus people with a GI must all be nice because of Bob being the sole template. If I accept it's a personality thing I have to ask some other difficult questions...

Besidemyselfwithworry · 13/04/2026 21:00

soupycustard · 13/04/2026 12:57

Well done to her. With the NHS apparently on its knees, whilst it's good they've setttled, it strikes me that their mistreating a staff member like this seems like a mighty waste of money.

NHS trusts all over the UK spend huge amounts of money compensating staff and patients it’s outrageous!

lcakethereforeIam · 13/04/2026 20:59

I thought this thread was about Jennifer Melle. Is she not an ordinary person?

PoppinjayPolly · 13/04/2026 20:58

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2026 20:35

I realised that from my close relationships with numerous transpeople (which clearly is a story in itself), that yes they are mostly normal people but normal people can be highly damaged and highly toxic...

Yes, isn’t it like saying… well I know a man, he’s lovely and kind, so all men must be lovely and kind?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/04/2026 20:42

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Well I suppose it depends whether you think deluding yourself to be the opposite sex and then demanding the rest of the world goes along with that delusion is "ordinary" behaviour doesn't it?

Datun · 13/04/2026 20:37

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

Do you understand that this board doesn't deal with that though?

It deals with the men who are violent, the ones who do want to get into women's intimate spaces, against their consent, who do want to punch them in the Olympic boxing ring, do threaten them at their rallies, who insist on being called lesbians and who want to medicate children.

Many women here know transwomen who aren't interested in any of that. So what?

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2026 20:35

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

I realised that from my close relationships with numerous transpeople (which clearly is a story in itself), that yes they are mostly normal people but normal people can be highly damaged and highly toxic...

RedToothBrush · 13/04/2026 20:34

spannasaurus · 13/04/2026 17:10

The patient was recorded as male in their medical records.

Looking at the patient’s medical records, she saw that the patient was recorded as male, not female or ‘transgender’. On the name board next to the bed, it simply gave the feminine name.

So no GRC and the hospital had ALREADY effectively 'misgendered' because there was no GRC/known medical discussion on record of transition (aka as a prisoner trying shit on)

But somehow she's in the wrong despite the legal status here being reasonably on her side.

Fuck that shit.

Why are women always to blame for some male fcukers behaviours.

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 20:32

INeedAPensieve · 13/04/2026 20:05

I'm looking forward to the Easter holidays being finished, maybe the influx of TRA posters we are getting recently on various FWR threads will die down as they go back to school/college/university.

This was a pretty open and shut case, and Jennifer was completely in the right, yet still we can't even celebrate her justified win against a...(checks notes) violent 6ft male paedophile who was chained to prison guards who not only racially abused her, but lunged at her and had to be restrained. No, we can't even have a thread to celebrate and thank the heavens that justice has been served without a victim-blaming poster plopping along to remind us that males, regardless of their crimes, their violence, their racism, must always, always be centred.

I'm tired of it all, and I applaud the PP who have calmly explained the details of this case with patience to demonstrate quite clearly that Jennifer did nothing wrong, nothing. I hope she is able to take solace in this win and know how many of us are behind her.

Lol, I am almost 60 and have been on FWR since 2017. Got myself radicalised for a bit there too. Til I realised from my contacts with trans people in the real world that most trans people (unlike the person this thread is about) are just ordinary people.

nutmeg7 · 13/04/2026 20:31

AlwaysNuance · 13/04/2026 16:26

You don't think a woman can ever be vocally racist or physically aggressive?

No, but it is much less likely for a woman (female) to be physically aggressive than a man (male).

That is NOT the same as saying women are never aggressive. They are (on average) less dangerous than a male when they are.

INeedAPensieve · 13/04/2026 20:05

I'm looking forward to the Easter holidays being finished, maybe the influx of TRA posters we are getting recently on various FWR threads will die down as they go back to school/college/university.

This was a pretty open and shut case, and Jennifer was completely in the right, yet still we can't even celebrate her justified win against a...(checks notes) violent 6ft male paedophile who was chained to prison guards who not only racially abused her, but lunged at her and had to be restrained. No, we can't even have a thread to celebrate and thank the heavens that justice has been served without a victim-blaming poster plopping along to remind us that males, regardless of their crimes, their violence, their racism, must always, always be centred.

I'm tired of it all, and I applaud the PP who have calmly explained the details of this case with patience to demonstrate quite clearly that Jennifer did nothing wrong, nothing. I hope she is able to take solace in this win and know how many of us are behind her.