Jennifer Melle wins settlement from NHS

Who says?

Well I say. Duh

Did they? Have they been quoted as saying.. we told the charge nurse to back down!”
back down from what?

Exactly! So what she called a patient Mr instead of Mrs, it’s really not a big deal there has to be some context - medical situations needs to be refer to biological sex for safety (and common sense). The whole gender situ is pretty new still in society and people will make mistakes with pronouns and titles, it’s not always going to be this offensive and malicious intent people seem to think.

also a nasty pedophile and criminal doesn’t really get the rights to be and say what he wants he lost that right when he committed vile crimes! no sympathy for his hurt feelings.

so glad she won, shame on the NHS for what they’ve put her through and for the half a story bbc!

Where's that been reported?

For someone who is "working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management", I have to say your de-escalation and conflict resolution skills on this thread are risible.

If that’s genuinely your job then im astounded at your suggestions for de-escalation. Those lines would bounce right off the autists I know after they’d gone over the edge.

It just sounds like you’re making stuff up now to bolster your position

This has been shared on a FB group local to me and the reactions and comments are all supporting Jennifer

At this point the staff were all aware that this sick person was from a sex offender wing of a prison, that he was large, that he was shackled to two prison officers whose responsibility it presumably was to keep the staff and the other patients safe.

Prison Officers who are supposedly trained in handling aggressive prisoners such as this man, it was their job to control him and de-escalate any violent situation that is what they are apparently trained to do and paid to do. Instead they allowed him to lunge at Jennifer Melle and follow her out of the room and then to put the tin lid on it they wanted her to kow tow to him and use the pronouns he demanded, pair of simpering, cowardly specimens.

This man seems to be suffering from a delusion that he is a woman. Why should anyone be expected to pretend that his delusion is in any way real?

Who says?

The actual guards even asked her to back down. I assume they are familiar with this person.

Lots of us have experience with adults and children with ND and/or SEND.
You have been quick to criticise Jennifer but slow to offer any alternative that wouldn't be even more escalatory. You simply have a professional difference of opinion about her technique. You have no grounds whatsoever for calling her professionalism into question.

The obvious solution here is for her to identify as white. Problem solved. She says she's white, therefore she is, therefore he has to respect that.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

In other words, you will keep excusing the abuse repeatedly while denying that you are doing so.

She's a nurse, she isn't "working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management."

This is really piss-boiling, this "I could have done better" attitude. If you think so, you go and be an A&E nurse. See how you do with the rest of the job.

To save you the trouble of trying yet again - we all understand your point. I think it's rubbish, I think everyone else on this thread thinks it's rubbish, and it doesn't get any less rubbish the more you try to explain it.

Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed".

what would they have changed to? Can’t be female?

No, you got me, I have never held down any job especially not one working on a daily basis with neurodivergent and SEND adults who often need de-escalation strategies and risk management.

That's why what I consider the poor risk management of this volatile situation jumped out at me immediately.

I absolutely understand that a violent, restrained, large, male bodied, dysregulated, criminal is scary to deal with. Which is why I cannot understand why Jennifer doubled down when she did, and I think it wasn't particularly professional at that moment and in that context.

Which as I have repeatedly explained does not make the abuse that happened next in any way acceptable.

Don't use quotation marks unless it's a direct quote.

What she actually said was:
‘I am sorry I cannot refer to you as her or she, as it’s against my faith and Christian values but I can call you by your name.’

She is explaining that she is not refusing to lie to him out of petty animosity. She is offering a solution. She is trying to de-escalate him.

You just don't want to see it because you have so much invested in your pov.

His 'differing beliefs about his personhood' are not her problem.

Someone correctly identifying your sex should not be a trigger to get 'riled' (much less dole out racist abuse). This man needs to see a therapist to come to terms with his reality. None of this should have been Jennifer's problem to deal with.

yes she said those things about her belief - as she is quite within her rights to- and the NHS have agreed! It is this man who was dysregulated and abusive. Sorry to break the bad news to you - sex based pronouns in hospitals will be encountered more and more frequently over time now whether you like it or not. You can’t force your secular religion on the rest of us

She could have worn a longer skirt too. Actions have consequences, isn't that right?

Busy NHS nurses shouldn’t have to practice a genderwang script or deny their instincts so that low life criminal scum like this individual don’t attack them, racially abuse them or force them to lose their livelihood.

Everything about this case is a national disgrace.

So is "yes, I called you Mr, I am a Christian and don't believe people can change sex, so I can't use your preferred title or pronouns."

One "blames" beaurocracy and the other explicitly exposes a personally held differing belief system that is otherwise not relevant in the care of this patient.

You are clearly an empathy free zone.
She slips up (during a private conversation with a colleague that she might not have expected to be overheard) and has a giant bloke effing and jeffing and calling her the N word while lunging at her - and you think anyone could say what you suggest. Have you ever had a public facing job? Or any job at all? How ridiculous you sound

"Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed"

That's definitely going to escalate him

She didn't have to lie.

She could have simply said something along the lines of "Sorry to have upset you, your notes said Male, they obviously haven't been changed". This would have said nothing about her beliefs or her inability to use the pronouns wanted.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using a sex based pronoun. On the other hand, it's to be expected that if you do, it will be likely to rile up someone who has differing beliefs about their personhood and who is already known to be an unpleasant and violent human.

But why does she have to lie to 'descalate tension'?

@TheKeatingFive It's a ridiculous claim. What if she lies and then he decides 'she doesn't really mean it' and he escalates because he 'knows' she is lying. This is very common abusive behaviour. She did exactly the right thing which was to say she would use his name, and then she sorted out his pain meds.