Truly single-sex bra fittings for DD13

To be honest, my daughter didn’t need anyone to measure her as she just wanted sports bras at the start - and is still in them now a couple years later. Shes fussy about fabrics so I ordered loads in an xs and she tried them on at home. If your daughter is just starting out she won’t be likely to be in a proper bra anyway - all of my daughter’s friends are in sporty ones still.

My mother was 10x more embarrassing than any man would have been in this situation - had the saleswoman come in and look at me and I wanted to crawl under the carpet. After that my dad was the one to take me most times - he’d hover around awkwardly and then pay for whatever I handed him.

Genderists don't necessarily believe that a transwoman wants to be female, but that they are literally a woman, which is (in their belief) a male or female person with a gender identity. So "presenting as female" would exclude some transwomen who believe that being a woman is determined by inner gender identity and not bodily appearance.

None of this is really relevant to OP's situation though, as she's clear it's female-only spaces she wants, regardless of how any male users look.

I'm talking about speaking the truth of what I perceive - which also happens to be the truth.

Males should not be in female single sex facilities anyway.

From the article

“As children of transitioners, we assume a symbolic value, both politically and personally. For the individual parent, we are used as proof of how well they are doing. It’s important to show that we are thriving. Pictures tend to be of us beaming away next to our cross-dressing Dad. Just as I was used as a ‘beard’ for my father and his friends – who would look twice at a ‘woman’ walking with a child? – so also do transitioning fathers use their children to add a sheen or respectability.”

This is definitely the case for the two fathers I know, including Paul who is on this thread. He also has the gall to call himself “mum”. It’s vile and I doubt their children, especially daughters, will ever forgive them.

I don't think that's true and it makes the conversation confusing. If the person listening thinks of transwomen as men, they can apply that part themselves.

Say I told you that a transwoman is next door to me in a female changing room, you're not going to think of it as much different than me telling you that a man is in there. You're going to see it as a violation.

If you tell someone who thinks TWAW that a TW is in the cubicle next door, they aren't going to think of it any differently then they do. They'll think they are in the right place.

The only benefit to saying it is a man is to make everyone agree that a man should not be in there. But you'd usually have to clarify at some point and then some people will switch to saying it's fine because they think TWAW.

For a proper fitting M&S are pretty useless anyway, regardless of any issues with fitting rooms, etc. They use the 'plus 4' method and basically will fit you into what they have rather than your actual correct size. E.g. someone measured as 32A in M&S is likely better suited to around 28E.

Bravissimo are generally very good and I doubt there's much chance of any men in the fitting room although I don't know their policy.

Alternatively, I'd highly recommend taking a look at 'A Bra That Fits'. They have a website with a size calculator which is very good, and they also have groups on Reddit and Facebook where you can get advice/support.

TBH, I'd probably just buy one or two on a 'guestimate' and try them out at home. That's what my Mum did with my first bra. I now have an 11 year old granddaughter, and I can imagine she'd be mortified should I take her for a formal bra fitting - even in a couple of years time.

I have 3 adult DDs and they have never been fitted for a bra.
Just measure her, and go and buy her a few to try and take back those that are not a good fit.
You are making too much of this .... don't use your DD to make a point. Just do what's best for her. That's what matters.

Personally, I think the most obvious solution is to refer to them as what they are, and what they appear to everyone's eyes to be - which is a man presenting himself in female attire, or 'as a woman'. I reject the 'trans' concept and see no need to grace it with my aquiescence

Tbere are much more likely and bigger risks in life for a 13yo eg being run over because they are wearing headphones and couldn’t hear the traffic, self harm and eating disorders, sporting injuries especially on garden trampolines.

That’s not to say it is impossible that the OP’s DD will have a man wanking in the next cubicle and will realise that it is happening, but I think since she will be with her mother the chances of this bra fitting turning into a traumatic event are extremely slim.

And what about swimming pool changing rooms? They are usually mixed too. And unlike bra fitting rooms, there definitely will be men. Are these now no-go ares for girls just in case a man decides to have a wank in the next cubicle? I used to be a lifeguard, in the school holidays, we used to der children swimming all day without their parents- they are allowed if they are 8 or older.

I think if someone is a transwoman, it's just easier to refer to them in that way. Clearer. Then we know it's someone male who presents as someone female, maybe had surgery etc. Opposed to someone with some sort of genetic condition or just a man who looks and presents like one would expect a man to look and present.

Not all men/males are transwomen, but all transwomen are men/male.

When faced with a man/male person it is impossible to tell if they identify as trans or not. And actually it doesn't matter - because all men/males, however they id, are not women, they are not female, and they need to keep out of women's/female spaces.

I think it's because people use the terms interchangeably on this site.

And if she is 26 inches under bust youll not find that size on the high street

@Secretsquirrelshh your dd would only be an AA or A if she was practically flat chested as AA means the measurement under bust and around the fullest part of the bust is exactly the same. A means only 1 inch difference.

I wouldnt trust M&S for measuring as they had me in 40C and I'm actually 36GG. They add extra inches to the under bust measurement giving the wrong size

@Posner

Someone said you were a man?

If so, maybe your objections are because you're a little clueless about the issue. Or maybe you just don't care. Or maybe you are trans yourself.

On the off chance that it's the former, do you now understand why women have an issue?

A man who enjoys talking about raping women with rolling pins, has said that he goes into women's bra fitting changing rooms.

It doesn't take much imagination to realise what sort of men are attracted to women only spaces. But having it so swiftly confirmed, made me wonder if you now see it.

If you're a woman, hopefully you still now see it.

I've heard women talk about what it was like growing up in a family where the 'father' was a trans identifying male. Those poor girls. The needs of the children rarely seem to be considered, let along prioritised, in these situations; it seems generally the only thing the man cares about is himself and what he wants.

I hope in the future the harm is recognised and there is understanding and support available to those children affected by their parents' choices and actions.

Mine had hers at m and s. I took her on a quiet evening and it’s cubicles so no one was coming in. I go to bravissimo for mine

OP has said it's not necessarily about trans woman but the stores that have created unisex changing rooms that include men.

Yet some people, claiming to dislike transphobia, insist that 'men' must be referring to trans women. If they can't distinguish between the two, it's a bit hypocritical to tell others to.

There are shops in Soho and major cities with bras for cross dressers etc. It's nothing new.
It's our allowing of pornography to become mainstream and entitlement that makes men seem to thing we're all interested in their sexual needs. I'm a six foot angry woman so I do not see this nonsense and we live rurally. We have got a trans vicar in one of the villages!

I remember when make up counters did special appointments for trans people and it wasn't a big issue. What happens now is performance and abuse. My DC have trans friends and they're welcome in my house. Anyone that doesn't consider others is just a wrongun.

There is no way ever my daughter would let a stranger near her. I'll choose a place that has lockable doors. Or let her try at home

I had an online bra fitting with Katie from Weir Wonderful. It cost £50. She was brilliant, and sends links for bras you can order, then you have another online session with her and she checks the fit of the new bras.

This you, mate?

As I said, and thank you for proving me right, what sort of man is attracted to women's changing rooms?

And attracted to posting all about it on women's forums?

Thank you for your service.