Truly single-sex bra fittings for DD13

If you want it to be as stress free as possible, may I gently suggest that you stop stressing and catastrophising over something that has an infinitesimal chance of happening.

Far better to teach her how to keep herself safe when she's out and about and increasingly independent than worrying about buying a bra in M&S.

Just around the corner from our M&S on Saturday morning in the early hours, a yiung woman was gang raped. I bet none of the perpetrators were trans women.

Are the changing rooms in your M&S not private cubicles with closed doors? Surely you can just go, and ask for a bra fitting? I:m pretty sure that there aren't any men bra fitters, but if you are worried about a trans woman doing the fitting (which seems unlikely but not impossible) you could contact the store and say that you would prefer a cisgender woman to do the firing and ask if that would be possible on date and time you had in mind. If it's just that you think she might be uncomfortable with a man within earshot, that's trickier. I can't think of any underwear stores where men aren't allowed, and I've certainly never experienced that environment and I'm in my fifties, but you could always look around and come back later if there are any men shopping in the store. Or find a small independent lingerie shop - they generally only have a single changing room for one customer at a time, and you could always contact them to ask when they are quietest - I suspect first thing in the morning is probably a good time.

As you claim it to not be political then I am sorry to say that shops were never single sex spaces in understanding of EqA 2010, it's exactly as it always was.

Just tons of people now shouting and demanding expecting armed genital inspecting guards at the entrance to every space they deem "single sex" without reading what does that mean in EqA 2010.

Life goes on, as this is not political as you say, just book the appointment.

As i said, i answered someone else's query about why people don't distinguish between the two. Why dont you go back and answer them, too?

I think it's ridiculous not to accept the concept of transwoman. There are males who present as females and call themselves transwomen. You can acknowledge this phenomenon without accepting that they are women. Saying they dont exist just seems odd in comparison.

You don't listen do you?

You personally accept the concept of a 'transwoman' and you obviously accept the language that goes with trans ideology. I don't, and neither do many others.It isn't any more complicated than that. What is your issue? Must everyone validate your particular take on matters? If you are fine with that lingo, then you can use it.

I answered someone else's query about why people arent clever enough to distinguish between men and transwomen and I stated that I think it would be clearer communication if people said trans woman when theyre talking about a transwoman.

Look up Boob or bust for a bra fitting guide. Most shops are very poor at bra fittings.

I, and many others, simply do not recognise the concept of a transwoman. It is ideological language, and pronouns are the tools used to validate it. I will not be coerced or lulled into using those terms.

What is it that you can't accept? Why is it so important to you that you keep pushing the term and the suggestion?

@Secretsquirrelshh you are overthinking this. At 13 (unless she has very large breasts, you do not need a bra fitting).

Go to M&S, chose some bras she likes and try them on. You will see whether they fit well or not. If tight or loose, nip out and get her a smaller or bigger size. Before you start, have a look round, clock the staff on duty - they will 99.99% be women.

The changing rooms in M&S are door rather than curtain. They are adjacent to the lingerie department and I've never seen a man using them to try on a suit. Actually, if I occasionally accompany DH to a shop and he needs to try on, the men's changing rooms are full of women - supervising and advising.

You arent validating them as women. You are stating that they are transwomen. A man presenting as a woman. It adds clarity. No it wasnt Ricky Gervais, it was eddy izzard.

What does your daughter think and feel about the idea of a formal bra fitting? If she is open to the idea, then personally I'd just go to John Lewis. The bra fiiting rooms are separate to the changing rooms, and it will certainly be a woman who does the fitting. You'd immediately recognise if this was not the case......and in that circumstance then you would walk away.

Someone asked why people aren't distinguishing between transwomen and men as if there is bo difference. I said the terms are used interchangeably here.

"Yet some people, claiming to dislike transphobia, insist that 'men' must be referring to trans women. If they can't distinguish between the two, it's a bit hypocritical to tell others to."

To be fair a well fitting bra is a revelation.... certainly if you have been wearing the wrong size for years.

I'm also trying to instill skills in DD that even when something is a bit embarrassing or awkward, you can still do it.
She's 13 .... everything is embarrassing! Just give her a break!
You have a political point to make and are using her as your tool ... stop it right now! Poor girl

We care because experience and recent history shows us that once you start validating men as women the implications and demands escalate. And we also care because female people have dignity and a right to the privacy of their sex in certain types of circumstance,

I'm really not sure of your point?

Men, however they ''identify', or how you personally choose to describe them, have no place in female only facilities.

Most people reject the concept of a transwoman. 'Trans identified' man is more apt. A man is no kind of woman.

They don’t even pretend any more, do they? They are now completely open about demanding the use of women.

That just shows lack of common sense.

I dont see why you care. It's either a man presenting as a man or its a male presenting in female attire (a transwoman). Thats the clearest and quickest way to report what happened. A man dressed in man clothes and generally just being a man, or a man who is presenting as female (ie a transwoman). Why would you care exactly how they identify when you are talking about the incident other than making it clear for the listener?

absolutely she doesn't need a bra (do any of us?)

Yes, many of us do. I like being able to run without having to hold onto my boobs to stop them from hurting.

It's not common sense at all. If it was, 70% of women wouldn't be in a badly-fitting bra.

Bravissimo put me into too-tight bands. Every single time.

The right way to fit a bra is to try it on, not measure. There is no need for a measuring tape.

I’m sure if you ask for a female They will comply. And she’ll be in a cubicle anyway. So I don’t see the issue.

https://youtube.com/shorts/FiwQCqmIgsk?si=IVEmADPfL6DZvS_u

watch it go try on a bra.