Anti-Social on R4 now on the girl guide and single sex spaces

Just listened to this. Milli was brilliant - I was very much hoping she would use the phrase “women and girls are not emotional support humans for men” and she did 👏👏👏.

Oliver really had no arguments did he, beyond “be kind” and “but think of the poor trans people!”
The bit where he said he couldn’t get his brain into the “legal stuff” was like the “Women Know Your Limits!” sketch where the woman says “I don’t know anything about the Gold Standard, but I do like fluffy kittens!” - what a plonker!

I was at a FiLiA conference session once where a lawyer said that while seemingly dry and dull, the law and policy is where many significant protections and upholding of rights for women happen, so ignore them at your peril. I think this episode proves this point - Oliver was floundering not because of his views but because of a wilful blindness to facts, evidence and the law

Oliver was totally out of his depth and made a show of himself. His suggestion that the girls in individual guide packs should decide whether to admit boys totally overlooks the reality for women and girls who do defend their boundaries ie they are accused of bigotry and transphobia and (worst of all) being unkind.
Also, I was fuming to hear him say that he’d told his 11 year old daughter that he ‘would die’ is she chose to go a single sex school. He really came across as not very intelligent and not very well informed. In total contrast to Milli.

Oliver came across as fucking insufferable.

Here's the article.

What you realise is that being in a same-sex bubble is fine, as long as there’s a justification for it. This extends to institutions too. Woman’s Hour on Radio 4, for example, may have started in 1946, but it needs to exist because female representation in the media is still woeful.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/mens-clubs-gender-garrick-b2554384.html

Edited to change link to the article rather than the comments.

Milli Hill wiped the floor with the clueless man.

I didn’t catch the name either but I thought she was great. No surprise to hear it was Milli Hill.

Listening now. Milli is GREAT, unsurprisingly. Oliver is a muppet. At the first mention of the Equality Act, he whinged that he can't cope with 'legalese' 🙄

Thank you. That was a good (if a bit frustrating) listen.

Doesn't it show how much damage that transgenderism has done to society that smug men like Oliver feel completely emboldened to argue that women must never be allowed to meet and organise without his permission!

Talk about the patriarchy. So many of these men would be completely at home in the Victorian era with their extreme views about women and independence.

That man was annoying and ignorant. Single-interest clubs based around a protected characteristic don't need to justify themselves. And girls do do better academically in a single-sex environment, and we all know why.

On the plus side, the words "women are not support humans for men" were spoken, and no klaxon went off. I wonder how many complaints there will be about the programme.

And of course not considering factors such as female #bekind socialisation, peer pressure and also the fact that once a group had become mixed sex it would then be exclusionary to all girls who might have wished to join in future for whom mixed sex for whatever reason doesn’t work.

I shouted at the radio at this point "Only one day - that's hardly equal!"
Even DP who plays 'neutral' in trans discussions raised an eyebrow at the Tuesday comment

It kinda doesn't matter anyway. The fact that girls and families have the choice of broadly similar organisations one of which is Single Sex means that there is an ongoing vote. If people didn't want a female only group they won't join Guides and it will fold.

But Oliver's point was a bit different. He felt each unit should make the decision as a one off for each individual. (Because not all boys are the same.) No real thought appeared to have been given to how that would work in practice or what the emotional impact might be

Sorry, to clarify the nomenclature. Any female leader and girl in a unit is classed as a member. Anyone else (eg. Male helpers but not formal leaders) are classed as a different title (i think its something like associated volunteer? Off the top of my head).

Nowadays, we have a different process so I dont know if such a vote would ever take place because of the Girlguiding Council structure https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/our-organisation/how-girlguiding-is-run/the-council/

But I will try and see if i can find a good link to the earlier vote and that isnt just my knowledge my info passed down in guiding lore.

Both

Did they ask the leaders or the girls ?

That is actually what happened many years ago! Back in the 90s, when the scouts went mixed sex, every single member of girlguiding was asked if they wanted to stay single sex or go mixed sex as well. That would have included rainbows at the time, brownies, guides etc. The vote was overwhelming to stay single sex btw.

I wonder (but not quite enough to find and read his article) what he considers to be adequate justification for single sex orgs. Because Milli provided plenty but he was still whaaa what about the sad boys.

He also probably didn’t realise or doesn’t care that the fact that GG exists as a single sex charity means its status has already been justified.

When oliver was suggesting the Guides themselves should be given autonomy to decide whether to accept boys was he really suggesting that the 6 year rainbows should be asked to decide.

I also note that he thinks a school priotising the girls one day a week to play football was wonderful progress - not equal time just one day is fine for girls

He was the embodiment of the confidence of the mediocre white man.

Just posted this on the other thread. Only heard a few minutes. Didn't take to Oliver at all. Not one of the great thinkers of our time, on what I heard.

Thanks for the poster who identified the woman guest, I assumed it was Milli Hill because of her first name, but missed the first part of this, and the R4 website for the show never gives details
...

I thought she was bloody brilliant (of course she was) and articulate. Oliver Somebody, in comparison, just feebly hand-wringing about being Kind. And I know he said ' there's a limit to how far we can uphold the law when it comes to the mental well-being of children' because I rewound that several times, and then made DH listen to it too. Unbelievable. Tell us where your priorities lie, mate!